PLD or DRK or no tanking at all?

[Februs]

Now, I really like the idea of the Paladin but I'm afraid if will be too boring. I'm not sure why. It feels a bit mushy if that's the right word. I never feel like I'm in control (level 47 or 46 or something like that). Obviously, more so in low level dungeons. One I have shield oath, it's fine. Also related to my shitty gear, I'd assume. Probably need to go shopping.

Pld is the Tank that is most dependent on item level and Shield Oath to boost their enmity generation. The reason is, honestly, a bit of an oversight on SE's part, but that's a topic for another thread. The point is that Pld's have the least tools at their disposal to hold threat. Flash deals 0 dmg (despite scaling with Str stat), and RoH generates less threat then Butchers Block (War) and Power Slash (Drk). They're not a "one and done" tank that can pop an Overpower or two and never worry about losing aggro. So, any discrepancy between a Pld's item level and the rest of the party (especially AoE Dps who are good at their rotation), is far more noticeable than the other two Tanks. It's for this reason that a lot of people actually consider Pld to be the hardest of the three tanks to use when it comes to Mob tanking.

IF you chose to go with Pld, you have to be committed to ensuring that you have your Pld outfitted appropriately at all times, and be extra vigilant when Mob tanking, using all of your tools (including alternating shield swipes and RoH combos throughout your targets) to maintain aggro. Pld requires a broader focus than the other two tanks to be used efficiently.

But I hear so many bad things about the Paladin. How he's useless and everything. I also hear a lot that the PLD is boring but I've never heard a proper explanation on why it's a boring job.

I actually find Pld's to be one of the most fun out of the three tanks, but it depends on what you're doing. People find Pld's boring, usually, for one of these reasons:

• 1-2-3 Tanking
  
  Pre lvl 50, Pld's only had one combo. So, it was relatively simple and boring to hold boss aggro and manage your Cd's (keep in mind this is not the case for mob tanking, as Pld's have to rotate targets to keep high enmity efficiently). Post 3.0, this is no longer the case, and Pld's now have 3 combos to work with. The stigma, however, has stayed with them.
  
  
• The Pld rotation is extremely precise.
  
  Even 3.0, a Pld's rotation requires very precise use of their Cd's and the appropriate combo at the appropriate time. It's one of the reasons they were so popular as Main Tanks in the Coil days. They have, by far, the most controlled rotations out of the three tanks, and a coordinated Raid group could completely plan an entire encounter with a Pld and typically have no surprises. There is almost nothing random about it (aside from oh S*** moments). By comparison, Warriors and Dark Knights have an air of spontaneous improvisation. A lot of people find that kind of tanking to be more entertaining, since it leaves them more vulnerable to bigger dips in their Hp
  
  
• Pld Dps is lower
  
  This is, partly, SE's fault. Pld's always had lower Dps than Warriors, but it wasn't nearly as big a deal until 3.0 rolled out. SE seems to have decided that "Difficult" is synonymous with "Dps Checks." So, since 3.0, a large portion of the fights require high Dps outputs to clear them but far less mechanics than what were traditionally found in the Coil fights. Because of this, Pld's have been landed with a huge stigma concerning their dps output and are often frowned at in Raids (savage only).
  
  The other issue is one of Ego. A lot of players seem to measure their penis size by the amount of Dps they are dealing, and instantly shun the Pld and call it boring because it's not capable of outputting the same Dps as a Warrior.

Personally, I do not suffer from this deficiency, so I have no issues with Pld dps output as it is. Given that Pld's require more focus to maintain mob enmity, I actually find them more enjoyable to play in dungeons than Drk's and War's (which are essentially like tanking on easy mode for me). I also enjoy the precision of the job. Perfectly balancing my DoTs, combos, and ensuring all of my CD's are synced correctly is nice if you have a slightly obsessive compulsive streak in you... but I guess that's trading one deficiency for another...

[ArdorGrey]

Even 3.0, a Pld's rotation requires very precise use of their Cd's and the appropriate combo at the appropriate time. It's one of the reasons they were so popular as Main Tanks in the Coil days. They have, by far, the most controlled rotations out of the three tanks, and a coordinated Raid group could completely plan an entire encounter with a Pld and typically have no surprises. There is almost nothing random about it (aside from oh S*** moments). By comparison, Warriors and Dark Knights have an air of spontaneous improvisation. A lot of people find that kind of tanking to be more entertaining, since it leaves them more vulnerable to bigger dips in their Hp

Amazing that you brag about how your ego isn't as big as others while you spout stuff like this. Every tank has to use planned CDs in raiding. War and Drk do NOT have room to "improvise" in savage raiding. This fallacy popped up on here a while ago and apparently it's starting to spread. All this statement proves is your ignorance of the other two classes and how they perform in savage. It's one giant humblebrag that has the audacity to call out others as egotistical.

Anyway TC PLD suffers in dungeon runs because while their single target rotations ouput slightly less damage than the other two tanks, they have no reliable aoe dps. They're like what ninja are to dps classes. Still good in their own way but you might wince a little if you see one in a dungeon run, even if they're a great player that stomps bosses.

Drk has the most ogcd attacks so they feel somewhat like a dps in that they're constantly attacking I wouldn't call them "button mashey" though. like every other class, there's still a logical rotation to follow if you want to perform well.

I also noticed you didn't mention warrior. They're a tank class too. ^^ A lot of people seem to write them off because for some reason using an axe is a deal breaker instead of ZOMGZ SWORDZ, but the people I know that originally put off leveling them but later got around to it normally find the class very fun. You also have a lot of OGCDs, but they're mainly buffs of defensive cd's that aren't necessarily as strong as paladins, but have shorter timers so you can use them more often. They're all about hulking up, both offensively and defensively.

All that said, Paladins are generally the easiest tank to pick up and play for most people, and if you want your tank class to be more of an entertaining side diversion instead of your main, it probably isn't a bad call. Most of the aggro complaints about pld come from people tunnel visioning single targets or stacking vit to high heaven while forgetting str governs their aggro generation. Use a combination of the two and you should be fine, 1k hp is not going to make or break whether you survive unless your healer doesn't know how to heal, but that extra enmity will be very noticeable.

[Asyx]

I also noticed you didn't mention warrior. They're a tank class too. ^^

I know. Everything I've heard about the WAR didn't really seem all that fun. I don't know why. Just how people described the class left me cold which usually means that I won't enjoy it. Since I'd have to level WAR anyway for cross class skills, I didn't ask about it because I need to play it no matter which tank I decide to go for.

[Februs]

Amazing that you brag about how your ego isn't as big as others while you spout stuff like this. Every tank has to use planned CDs in raiding. War and Drk do NOT have room to "improvise" in savage raiding. This fallacy popped up on here a while ago and apparently it's starting to spread. All this statement proves is your ignorance of the other two classes and how they perform in savage. It's one giant humblebrag that has the audacity to call out others as egotistical.

I did not intend to brag about anything, nor was I even commenting on the Warrior/Dark Knight cool downs being unplanned in Raids.When it comes to Savage Raids, there is no improvisation (for any jobs, not just tanks). I am very well aware of this. However, back in the coil days, a Pld had the most reliable rotation for ensuring the appropriate buffs were up at precisely the right time. They only had one combo. Unlike War's, who had the additional challenge of keeping up storms eye/path/and fracture on top of managing their Wrath stacks and using the right CD at the right time, Pld's simply had to push one button (maybe two for the bigger hits) at the right time and leave the rest to the healers. They didn't even have to manage DoT's. By comparison, their rotation was easier to manage and plan around, especially in regards to healing. In some cases this attitude has persisted.

In terms of what kind of Cd's they have at their disposal, again, I never meant to imply that Drks and Wars somehow fly by the seat of their pants in raids. I was actually referring more to mob pulls. However, I suppose this works either way. Notice that I was referring to the dips in Hp? I didn't mean that War's literally improvise their entire tanking method. I said they have an "air of spontaneous improvisation." I realize that my wording my have been a bit misleading, but I was referring to the fact that Wars take bigger hits (dmg) than Pld's. Their Hp fluctuates more, and they can self-heal massive amounts of hp without healers depending on what CD's they have available. In a lot of cases (not so much in raids) they don't even need to rely on a healer being there. They can handle themselves. In that regard, a Warrior has much more wiggle room to "improvise" than a Pld, who will, most certainly, die in short order if they don't have a healer looking after them (Clemency helps, but you only get 2 casts, 3 with stretch mp regen, and that's not enough to allow a Pld to improvise if, say, the healer bites it).

In any case, my comment on people having an egotistical approach to Warrior tanking versus Paladin tanking was strictly referring to the general attitude concerning Tank Dps. I don't know about your server. Maybe you come from the mystical land of exceptions, but the general chatter among most of the FFXIV community, including right here on the forums, props War up to be the "best" tank and required for Raid meta, mostly because of their high Dps output and ability to self-heal. It's gotten to the point where any discussions concerning "fixing" or "balancing" the other two tanks eventually devolves at some point into a "Moar Dps!" debate, because everyone wants the bigger stick. I was simply pointing this out.

Very good of you to misunderstand and assume that I have no idea how to use any of the 3 Tanks, though. Cheers.