What Makes a Paladin? An Essay on Paladin Identity

[Freyyy]

Sorry, but no. Maim and Eye will fall if you don't reapply them, Blood of the Dragon will fall if you don't manage it properly. Darkside is a stance, it changes the gameplay of DRK (Again, something that no oath does, wether you have one activated or not) and it will never fall by itself.

A stance cannot be activated alongside another stance, it's the basic thing of "stances". You have to choose which one you use (try to stand in two different stances at the same time in real life, it's impossible). MNK fists are stances, NIN poisons are stances. A DPS stance for DRK would be something that cancels out Grit, costs the same MP, is on the GCD and doesn't conflict with Darkside either. DRK doesn't have anything like that. Darkside is a Maim equivalent, that's all. Saying that Darkside is a stance is like saying that Aetherflow is a stance. Aetherflow also changes the gameplay of SCH/SMN, and will also never fall by itself (as long as you don't USE the stacks).
And DRK doesn't need a DPS stance because of what Blood Weapon brings to DRKs kit when used. More speed, a little less TP consumption, and mostly a lot more MP which means a lot more Dark Arts. Which means a lot more DPS.

Edit : I'll also add that Maim never falls off when you do your rotation properly either, just like Darkside. The argument of "Unless you never use Syphon Strike, it won't fall off" is moot because, unless you never use Maim, it won't fall off either. And guess what ? Maim and Syphon Strike are both at the same place in the rotation. Second tier of non-enmity combos. It's just that for WAR, your enmity combo is also your most damaging combo, so you're most of the time alternating between a BB combo and a SE combo, where DRK will use as little Power Slash as possible. But it's to compensate the fact that Syphon isn't only here to compensate Darkside's cost, but also Dark Arts, Dark Passenger, and all that stuff -alongisde BP and BW-.

[Reynhart]

A stance cannot be activated alongside another stance, it's the basic thing of "stances". You have to choose which one you use (try to stand in two different stances at the same time in real life, it's impossible).

As soon as I'll manage to gather dark energy around my body, I'll keep you posted on what I can do "in real life".
Oh, and by the way, "in real life", Sword and Shield are used together. You don't neglect one to use the other.

Edit for your edit :

Edit : I'll also add that Maim never falls off when you do your rotation properly either, just like Darkside.

So, I suppose any target jumping of becoming untargettable for several seconds is not doing your rotation properly...but, hey, whatever, I'll change the wording of the skill so you can't play on words anymore.

All and all, it doesn't change the fact that every tank_skill_that_stays_on_without_any_duration_displayed offers something else when used in conjunction with other skills, except SwOath and ShOath.

[Freyyy]

Oh, and by the way, "in real life", Sword and Shield are used together. You don't neglect one to use the other.

Lol where did you see a Paladin use only his shield or his sword depending on the oath ? I don't understand your point here. In real life, the oaths would just translate in either you stand with your sword in front of you, for a more "fencing-oriented" stance, or with your shield in front of you, anticipating enemy attacks and preparing to block.

[Reynhart]

Lol where did you see a Paladin use only his shield or his sword depending on the oath ? I don't understand your point here. In real life, the oaths would just translate in either you stand with your sword in front of you, for a more "fencing-oriented" stance, or with your shield in front of you, anticipating enemy attacks and preparing to block.

Except that, in real life, you don't stand with your sword in front of you when you have a shield. First, it protects you less, and second, it gives you less momentum when striking with your sword.

And, if you really want to be technical, I don't see my PLD changing body position when switching Oath. you want use to stop using the word Stance altogether ? Or we can stop comparing the game to "real life" since it's, you know, a game.

[Freyyy]

Except that, in real life, you don't stand with your sword in front of you when you have a shield. First, it protects you less, and second, it gives you less momentum when striking with your sword.

And, if you really want to be technical, I don't see my PLD changing body position when switching Oath. you want use to stop using the word Stance altogether ? Or we can stop comparing the game to "real life" since it's, you know, a game.

I know that in real life you don't do that. It's just how you can eventually see the thing, since PLD loses tankiness when activating Sword Oath. Yeah PLD don't change body positions. You're just nitpicking here, I don't really know why I keep answering you. You seem to not understand that "stances" are a type of ability in video games and they are called like that for specific reasons that tie to the real life definition of what is a stance. Darkside doesn't fit in this category at all.

[Reynhart]

You seem to not understand that "stances" are a type of ability in video games and they are called like that for specific reasons that tie to the real life definition of what is a stance. Darkside doesn't fit in this category at all.

So, for the third time : Ok, I'll stop using the "stance" word if that's the real issue for you. Can we go back on track, now ?

All and all, it doesn't change the fact that every tank_skill_that_stays_on_without_any_duration_displayed offers something else when used in conjunction with other skills, except SwOath and ShOath.

I'm the one nitpicking, sure...when all of this started because you're pretending that DRK in Darkside should not be compared to PLD in SwOath...

[Freyyy]

So, for the third time : Ok, I'll stop using the "stance" word if that's the real issue for you. Can we go back on track, now ?

Yes we can go back on track. I was just pointing out a confusion most people have about Darkside, saying it's a DPS stance when it's clearly not. That's all.
I agree about the fact that PLD stances don't bring anything in terms of gameplay compared to the other jobs (Defiance/Deliverance bring Wrath/Abandon mechanics, Grit brings Souleater's lifesteal, Gritless brings Blood Weapon, SwO/ShO don't bring anything other than their passive buffs). But I think that it's unfortunately the way devs want PLD to work. All passive, very simple gameplay. And that's sad.

[Freyyy]

Edit for your edit :

So, I suppose any target jumping of becoming untargettable for several seconds is not doing your rotation properly...but, hey, whatever, I'll change the wording of the skill so you can't play on words anymore.

When a boss is untargettable for more than 4sec, you should toggle Darkside off too in order to let your MP regen a little bit. That's just like using Maim. You reactivate Darkside when the boss is targettable again, just like you would first start with a Storm's Eye combo as a WAR (and thus, reapply Maim). It's the exact same thing. Dunno why you're still trying to argue about this, nitpicking like that.

[Reynhart]

Dunno why you're still trying to argue about this, nitpicking like that.

I'm the one nitpicking, sure...when all of this started because you're pretending that DRK in Darkside should not be compared to PLD in SwOath...

Like you could delete Sword Oath from the game, distribute its potency to WSes, and then put a bigger damage penalty on Shield Oath and the only thing that would change is paladins would save a GCD when switching.

At last, someone who talks about the real issue. Thank you sir.

[Bravely_Default]

Funny thing about the ninja's "stances" is that they are OGCD. they have a 5 second cooldown but it is easy to swap them without messing up your rotations. Not the same for paladins however which is kind of funny since I would imagine sword and shield oaths would be a matter of favoring offense or favoring defense while a ninja can just swap the poisons on his weapon mid combat like it is cool.