3.1 MSQ Reaction [SPOILERS]

[myahele]

I guess Elidibus want to us to find the truth out for ourselves or to willingly come to him for that information?

[CyrilLucifer]

I guess Elidibus want to us to find the truth out for ourselves or to willingly come to him for that information?

That has always been what I assumed is the case.

If you were in the WoL's place and were suddenly told, just as a rather drastic example, that everything you fought for was a lie and that you've really been destroying the world instead of saving it, you would probably deny it at first, especially if you haven't seen direct evidence.

However, if you come onto the information on your own, you're much more likely to lack that lashing out stage.

As for coming willingly, that's another thing I've considered. Elidibus basically openly taunted us in the 2.2 Sahagin Elder bit about the Echo and its secrets and I felt he was rather clearly trying to get us to come to him with that.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Eldibus being all vague is the sole reason why I refuse to take anything he says seriously. If he said something like "It would not make a lot of sense now if I told you, but perhaps later on once X Y and Z happens, it will," then I'd be a bit intrigued. All he has been doing so far is being someone who just sits on the sideline playing 20 questions and hopes you can read his mind. And since he is affiliated with other Ascians who aren't shy in letting us know what they think of us or what we're doing, I doubt his credibility even more.

[Tenkuu]

That's really interesting, but I'm not sure why they wouldn't mention it in English, because that's a huge thing to keep out. That's not like changing the tone and manner of speech like with Midgardsormr.

I mean, it could be simply that, as you said, the Blessings feel different to those without it, or those with a different one, and that's why they didn't bother with it, since it's basically nice narrative fluff. If it implies actual tempering, that's a big implication for our character and the Scions as well, where we've previously only had that one line to assume from.

That was my bad actually, I interpreted it wrong, and it was Y'shtola's line, not Krile's. The original line is:

感じたことのないエーテルね。テンパードにされているような感じはしないけれど……。

Someone can probably translate this better than me, but it's essentially her saying that she doesn't feel any aether, but that the Warriors of Darkness don't feel like people who had been tempered either. One of the other odd things though is that the Warrior specifically says "kono sekai" when referring to you as the Warrior of Light, almost as if he could be from another world. The dialogue from his Echo is also much more specific and has him referring directly to Ascians' interference with history. Also, before his group attacks us, he's talking about testing us, not showing us, in the original. To me that conveys different intentions and explains better why they didn't mind withdrawing from the fight once Thancred showed up.

[Fenral]

感じたことのないエーテルね。テンパードにされているような感じはしないけれど……。
It's not like any aether I've felt before, but I don't get the feeling that he's been tempered...

Pretty simple stuff. Basically, his aetherial signature is different from "normal," but also not the same as when someone has been tempered. Seriously, though. The goggles are just an accessory at this point, since she now sees like that normally.

(It seems the minor changes to Darklander's pre-fight dialogue were made assuming most English-speaking players weren't familiar with standard shounen rival behavioral patterns. Almost like they have no idea who's actually playing this stuff, or something...)

[Alisa180]

On the whole thing with Eldibus: I re-iterate my statement in the OP that the whole thing with him is starting to get really annoying. SE is relying heavily on the fact that there's this big 'awful truth' that keeps being jerked just out of reach to create suspense. Here's the thing: Withholding information like that is actually a *really shitty* way to create suspense. I speak as a writer myself. It's *a* way to help keep the audience hooked, but it should not be your only way, or even your primary way. Continually jerking us around like this grinds on the nerves, and eventually leads us to question why we should even care.

If I was on the writing team, I'd drop the bomb already. The resulting fallout will create real tension and drama, not the false one currently playing out around this 'big secret' that by its very nature we don't know how much we should care about.

The real suspense from this patch comes from Alisaie's re-appearance and what role she will soon play, Atoriel about to become head of the Fortempts house and hints all is not well with Emmallain, and of course, the Warriors of Darkness. On the latter, if you read the journal for their debut quest, it refers to the head WoD as a 'rival'. That should be interesting. And that's where the real suspense comes from, wondering how that's going to play out. Contrasted against this, Eldibus' increasingly infuriating vagueness risks dragging down the otherwise well-done story.

(It seems the minor changes to Darklander's pre-fight dialogue were made assuming most English-speaking players weren't familiar with standard shounen rival behavioral patterns. Almost like they have no idea who's actually playing this stuff, or something...)

I'm gonna go ahead and quote from the journal:

"As you look on in silence, their leader cuts down the Gnath god in a display of power far beyond that of any common adventurer. An equal, perhaps? ...Or a rival?
...
“So you are the Warrior of Light. The savior of Eorzea.” Your counterpart regards you coldly, his every word dripping with disdain. A rival, then."

I'd actually much prefer it if the WoD is meant more as a 'rival' character then simply the 'evil counterpart.' It just feels like there's more potential with that kind of dynamic.

[Zohar_Lahar]

On the whole thing with Eldibus: I re-iterate my statement in the OP that the whole thing with him is starting to get really annoying. SE is relying heavily on the fact that there's this big 'awful truth' that keeps being jerked just out of reach to create suspense. Here's the thing: Withholding information like that is actually a *really shitty* way to create suspense. I speak as a writer myself. It's *a* way to help keep the audience hooked, but it should not be your only way, or even your primary way. Continually jerking us around like this grinds on the nerves, and eventually leads us to question why we should even care.

Same issue with Midgardsormr's reason to guard Lake Silvertear. We get him as a flying mount to chauffeur us around, yet I still can't actually ask him: "Why did you rally the horde to fight against the Agrius?" Seriously, what's going on here? I've been waiting since Patch 2.5 for an answer on who/what he really is and why he caused the pivotal battle of the entire game's backstory.

[Morningstar1337]

On the whole thing with Eldibus: I re-iterate my statement in the OP that the whole thing with him is starting to get really annoying. SE is relying heavily on the fact that there's this big 'awful truth' that keeps being jerked just out of reach to create suspense. Here's the thing: Withholding information like that is actually a *really shitty* way to create suspense. I speak as a writer myself. It's *a* way to help keep the audience hooked, but it should not be your only way, or even your primary way. Continually jerking us around like this grinds on the nerves, and eventually leads us to question why we should even care.

Maybe Someone on the dev team should have watched Lost, or the X-Files...then again that could backfire by making SE attempt to emulate these shows...

[Cilia]

Now, wait just a cotton-picking--

Oh, wait, what? Oh, alright then.

D'aww, c'mon. It's not like I take a contrarian stance for the hell of it, I just don't like jumping to conclusions, many of which seem to be reached with other games' lore that likely doesn't apply here!

To be fair, I think it's less Elidibus in this case and more SE being vague and purposely cutting off conversations while trying to keep up the image that Elidibus is sinister. Elidibus seems to have at least convinced Urianger to listen to him repeatedly, but Urianger did defend/use the Elidibus-point of view when introducing us to Unukalhai (totally-not-Elidibus-or-Elidibus'-servant). Unukalhai hasn't been entirely dishonest with us, either.

It is probably just Squeenix' way of keeping us on the line, but it still makes Elidibus come across as unbecoming. He repeatedly states we'd be on his side if only we knew what he knew... then doesn't tell us, as if we're too weak to handle the truth.

I can handle it, big guy. Just tell me already!

Ditto, though with an additional point, being enigmatic and hiding things from us doesn't help us to trust him when he DOES just come out and say what his intent is. I understand he probably has his reasons for not bluntly saying what he wants, but when someone is behaving manipulatively, I can't help but feel manipulated.

I've never really felt like Elidibus is manipulating us. He believes we are misguided, but unlike the other Ascians who have a "shoot first ask questions later" modus operandi, he seems to be trying to push us into learning the truth and joining his cause. We've only interacted with him on one occasion - I don't know how he could be trying to manipulate us, save possibly through our dark counterparts, who were just as enigmatic about the truth as he is.

I really wish they'd tell us the truth, and have been waiting since GODSDAMNED 2.1 for it, but...

[Tenkuu]

On the whole thing with Eldibus: I re-iterate my statement in the OP that the whole thing with him is starting to get really annoying. SE is relying heavily on the fact that there's this big 'awful truth' that keeps being jerked just out of reach to create suspense. Here's the thing: Withholding information like that is actually a *really shitty* way to create suspense. I speak as a writer myself. It's *a* way to help keep the audience hooked, but it should not be your only way, or even your primary way. Continually jerking us around like this grinds on the nerves, and eventually leads us to question why we should even care.

I think the problem with your statement lies in the fact that there is not a single big truth, but rather several small truths. For instance, what is Elidibus' motive in trying to get us to champion his cause? Why doesn't he just focus his efforts on eliminating us instead? Lahabrea on his own and even with a friend may not have been able to stop us, but surely Elidibus rallying all of the Ascians against us would actually be enough to defeat us? Also, instead of reappearing before us himself, why have the Warriors of Darkness step in? Another thing is that we as a Warrior of Light may be getting manipulated by Hydaelyn, but the Scions do not seem to be acting on anything other than facts: Ascians cause deaths, chaos and are directly attacking them, so the Scions defend themselves against them and protect their own in addition to helping the countries they've each become affiliated with. It could be said that the only heroic pretension comes from the Warrior of Light, not from the Scions. Basically, SE is answering the small questions a few at a time, which makes perfect sense if they're going to carry this plot forward for at least 2 more expansions.

Same issue with Midgardsormr's reason to guard Lake Silvertear. We get him as a flying mount to chauffeur us around, yet I still can't actually ask him: "Why did you rally the horde to fight against the Agrius?" Seriously, what's going on here? I've been waiting since Patch 2.5 for an answer on who/what he really is and why he caused the pivotal battle of the entire game's backstory.

Isn't the answer to that one rather obvious? Midgarsormr felt that the Garleans were evil and so attacked them. They were enough of a big threat for him to risk everything to defeat them.