So, after the patch, how goes it with Paladin?

[eagledorf]

That's right. You can do 1 swap if you just turn off Shield Oath, but SwO is like 13% of your DPS and in the current content you only dance into the tank stance, not out, so that's not really a real strategy right now.

[Blitzace]

2 changes,

1. TP -
Still run out of TP so fast.

2. Swipe -
Its nice, only works when you MT though.

To be honest, i'm quite disappointed with these "changes" the TP i can hardly notice i do still notice i run out of TP way before anyone else does though.

[Aurius]

Having your hardest hitting combo also be an enmity builder is a double edged sword. While it's awesome for single target aggro, it sucks when pushing DPS as ot. I main war, but I play the other tanks frequently as well (still leveling pally, I'm pretty casual) and as war ot I can't weave in my highest DPS combos or I'll steal hate. This sounds like a "oh the war probz lol" statement but imagine this being a problem with every tank. Butchers block hits for 280 (if I remember right) as an enmity finisher, which is great if your the only tank, not so much ot. Keep in mind, I don't have a static, I do play with fc buddies but only occasionally. So I'm saying this from a df perspective.

[Xyphon]

@Alimdia - Except maim increases war's dmg by 20%, making only a 5% loss in tank stance when its up. Having darkside on drk active with grit like war is only a 5% dps loss. You cannot compare this to pld at all period.

[rawker]

here we go again.

maim + defiance = 1.2 * 0.75 = 0.9

ergo, 90% of original damage, not 95%

grit + darkside = 1.15 * 0.8 = 0.92

ergo, 92% of original damage and again, not 95%

[Xyphon]

@Rawker - Hmm, so your saying maim is applied before defiance? Regardless, my main point was how much higher straight dps in tank stances are for both drk and war. That's really all lol.

[rawker]

stances and buffs are multiplicative.

although when FoF is up, a PLD has a net gain of 4% in shield oath

[Aurius]

@Alimdia - Except maim increases war's dmg by 20%, making only a 5% loss in tank stance when its up. Having darkside on drk active with grit like war is only a 5% dps loss. You cannot compare this to pld at all period.

Maim is a 20% str increase not damage. It does increase damage, but not by 20%. Storms eye raises damage by slashing weapons so it is a direct DPS increase. If we get nitty gritty technicality wise, a war combining unchained with these buffs/debuffs is the highest dmg mt, albeit for 30 seconds. Not trying to be mean if it sounds that way. I agree that I would like to see pally changes.

[Xyphon]

Weird, the tool tip clearly says "Combo Bonus: Increases damage dealt by 20% Duration: 24s"

@Rawker - That's interesting that its applied that way. Any idea why the dev's did the math like that? As for the flight or flight argument, I was just straight out comparing non cooldown buffs.

If you want to compare cooldown buffs, wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare berserk vs FoF? Or you just trying to compare the dps increase duration of 24 vs 30 seconds?

Since you seem to like math, let me give you a very simple example:

Lets say every 10 seconds you deal 10k dmg. For the sake of buffs, lets take a look at 3 cycles of that.

So that's 30k dmg, in 30 seconds.

Paladin:

30k + FoF = 39k dmg

Warrior:

20k + berserk (only 20 seconds) + 10k unbuffed dmg = 40k dmg.

Looks to me in that simple math, that warrior with just berserk pulls ahead by 1k dmg. That's not even bringing in the potency differences between combos.

[Aurius]

My bad, sorry for misinformation.