3.1 PLD Changes

[Yonanja]

@rawker: While that is true, it would still be a better situation than if players could straight out prove that one class is considerably better then the rest. Bias will always be there no matter what you do... unless you just have one tankingclass.

@Brian_: As long as all tankingclasses can still survive the encounter without being a liability for the group, the one with the highest DPS will be prefered by the majority. What you're talking about is pretty much just turning the problem upsidedown instead. Making the "tankier" class be the prefered choice because the more "dpsy" one will have problems surviving or just being a liability to the group. It's not really something that would make the classes balanced if you think about it. Real balance is when you can't point at a given situation and right out say that class A is better for this, as class B can't handle it as well.

Also "theoretically possible" doesn't mean that it's realistic. This is an MMO, and the vast majority of players will always pick the "best" classes when given the option, which in most cases means the classes that can get them through the encounter as quickly as possible. I have yet to see a single MMO that managed to have a class setup like this where all tankingclasses were on equal footing in the eyes of the playerbase.

[rawker]

@rawker: While that is true, it would still be a better situation than if players could straight out prove that one class is considerably better then the rest. Bias will always be there no matter what you do... unless you just have one tankingclass.

Well... if you think about it, player skill trumps everything. So this approach really will just weed out the bad ones. I mean, there are terrible paladins out there but due to they safety net of the PLD skill set, they seem fine... I ran my level 54 DRK yesterday and asked for critique and what I got was positive remarks.. I guess it's just because PLD and DRK play styles aren't that different. Though I really have this fear of playing WAR. It's just too risky for my type. haha

[Brian_]

@rawker: While that is true, it would still be a better situation than if players could straight out prove that one class is considerably better then the rest. Bias will always be there no matter what you do... unless you just have one tankingclass.

@Brian_: As long as all tankingclasses can still survive the encounter without being a liability for the group, the one with the highest DPS will be prefered by the majority. What you're talking about is pretty much just turning the problem upsidedown instead. Making the "tankier" class be the prefered choice because the more "dpsy" one will have problems surviving or just being a liability to the group. It's not really something that would make the classes balanced if you think about it. Real balance is when you can't point at a given situation and right out say that class A is better for this, as class B can't handle it as well.

Also "theoretically possible" doesn't mean that it's realistic. This is an MMO, and the vast majority of players will always pick the "best" classes when given the option, which in most cases means the classes that can get them through the encounter as quickly as possible. I have yet to see a single MMO that managed to have a class setup like this where all tankingclasses were on equal footing in the eyes of the playerbase.

Again, complete failure to understand.

It is not such a black and white issue. People are like a broken record or answering machine. They heard someone spout something of sense and now just repeat it without understanding what it actually meant or the context it comes from.

I will say it again. As simple as possible.

Currently, having more DPS means --

1. You have better overall raid survivability
2. You have better overall raid DPS
3. You have better overall raid utility

Why? Because mechanics are structured around DPS.

But, tank utility or tank survivability still contribute to your raid survivability, raid DPS, and raid utility. It's just to a lesser degree.

It's not turning the problem upsidedown instead, it's returning raid design to what they should be. Tanks with more eHP should be surviving the damage better. Mechanics should be designed so that certain utility actually matters. The benefits of having more DPS vs. eHP vs. utility should be balanced rather than having DPS as the best option by a country mile. Just look at raid design in Coil. Did DPS matter a lot? Yes. Did DPS matter more than anything else? Possibly, but it was certainly more balanced than it is now.

Obviously, people will min-max and they will go wtih the best option. My point is that they should alter raid design so that the best option isn't necessarily more DPS. Just look at what happened this raid cycle -- what was the solution when progression stalled in the world first race? More DPS. It wasn't more survivability. It wasn't bringing specific utility. It was MORE DPS.