3.1 : Astrologian "adjustments''

[Lilith_Merquise]

A lot of stuff, and a lot of things.

So here are the raw stats put side by side (only comparing Diurnal with WHM)


HEALING
Benefic - 400 Potency
Cure - 400 Potency
= Equal

Helios - 300 Potency
Medica - 300 Potency
= Equal

Benefic II - 650 Potency
Cure II - 650 Potency
= Equal

Aspected Benefic - 240 Cure Potency
Medica II - 250 Cure Potency
= False (And I guess a 10y difference if you're a baby and care about that sort of thing, still doesn't change that this is false @Namo-guy)

???? - ????
Cure III - 550 Cure Potency AoE
= False

Essential Dignity - 400 Potency x Target Missing HP, 40s
Benediction - Restores all Target's HP, 300s
= Depends (do you want instant cap and longer CD, or more large chunk healing with lower CD)

Aspected Benefic - 190 + (140 * 6) = 1030 cure potency , 18s
Regen - 150 *7 = 1050 potency, 21s
= False (thank you for correction @File2ish @Sleigh @MidnightTundra)

Assize - 300 Potency cure to all party members, 300 DPS to all enemies, 10% of max MP restored
Celestial Opposition - Stuns all enemies in range for 4s, increase buffs by 5s
= False (grossly false at that...)

Collective Unconscious - 150 Cure Potency and damaged reduced by 10% (15s)
Asylum - 100 potency (24s)
= Depends (sure AST is stronger here, but it's less duration meaning you can't pop it too early, and it grounds you were as the other does not for less potency)

????? - ??????
Tetragrammaton = Cure Potency 700 (60s recast)
= False (kinda makes up for the benediction being 300 giving WHM 2 big "Oh No Buttons!")


I'm not going to touch the DPS side of things because that is it's own discussion but here lets go into abilities.


ABILITIES
Cards (and abilities relating, draw, shuffle, dilation, etc.) = Their own buffs
???? - ?????
= Better (yep card buffs do help, even if its very small and not very long it is a leg up.)

Synastry = 40% of a cure goes to someone you mark and increases potency by 20% for 20s
Divine Seal = Increases potency of all healing magic by 30% for 15s
= Depends (want 30% for all abilities for everybody lasting 15s, or want 40% of a cure to go to 1 person for 20s, both are beneficial)

Lightspeed = Reduces MP by 25% and cast times by 2.5s reducing magic attack potency by 25% for 10s
Presence of Mind = Increases Spell speed by 20% for 15s
= Depends (mp reduction and caped 2.5 off casting with a -25% dps penalty, or a scaling 20% that doesn't reduce MP cost doesn't reduce potency and lasts longer).


.... Oh and further more that isn't even the traits in which AST is grossly lacking compared to WHM.


TRAITS
Enhanced Light speed - decreases DPS penalty to 25% from 50% (shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Enhanced Medica - 20% Medica MP will b halved.
= False (I would much rather be conservative then given an ability I should have without the trait)

Enhanced Essential Dignity - 40s recast now (shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Quick Stoneskin - 2.5s cast time
= False (I would rather a faster shield then given a trait for what I should already have)

Enhanced Benefic - 15% chance Benefic II will be instant cast.
Freecure - 15% a Cure will make a Cure II Free.
= Depends (a Free cure 2 or a fast one, I would rather free, but fast is helpful in run and gun)

Enhancd Disable - Increase reduction to 10% (Shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Overcure - 15% chance your next Cure II will half the cost of your next Cure III
= False (I would rather a cheaper AoE cure option for conservation then an ability I should already have)


7 = FALSE that AST is better then WHM
5 = Depends both are pretty good but somewhat different from each other (essentially a draw but not equal)
2 = BETTER in which AST is technically better then a WHM
3 = EQUAL when AST and WHM are equal in every way.



Right here.... Most of the traits AST gets, are what the abilities should be anyway with out the need of traits making them more reasonable. That's like giving a kid a remote control car, with no wheels, and then on their next birthday giving them the wheels to put on the car.... Where as WHM have traits that enhance what they already have not giving you part of what it is and giving the rest later...

You seem to be recognized for being hard headed and not willing to listen, but I figured I would at least take the time to point out why it is you're wrong, and at least it will give me the access to point it out later when you make this silly claim that AST will replace WHM in some upside down world.

What this shows is that our abilities are slightly different and while AST is best with card buffs and Aspected benefic over Regen. AST is failing in having a 2nd "oh no" button cure, a multi purpose AoE ability (Assize vs C.O.), a third and strongest AoE heal at a stronger potency then the other 2....

We give a massive cure, multi purpose AoE ability, and a 3rd AoE heal..... for cards and a stronger single target regen heal..... Also we give up traits that enhance our classes efficiency for traits that give us the abilities we should already have and yet we are superior?....... You say we'll be replacing WHM how soon again?



I'm not writing this because I think AST should have what WHM has or should be better then WHM, I'm putting this hear because I disagree entirely with AST being better then any current healer, and claiming that it is even equal to the other healers is being far too kind and grossly misinformed... A great healer can make this class work, no doubt, but it would be better if it was actually put on an equal footing with the others rather then held back by it's major setbacks in the healing dept and lack of emphasis on the cards which are meant to make up for its lack of healing.

[File2ish]

.... Oh and further more that isn't even the abilities in which AST is grossly lacking compared to WHM.

Oh you mean our attack spells and stuff? Yeah. You don't even need to cover those. WHM beats AST hands down in terms of damage output.

AST pretty much only wins in the utility game because of cards + expand/extend/enhance and time dialation, obviously. But WHM won't be replaced by AST any time soon because of it.

[Sleigh]

Aspected Benefic - 390 cure potency (initial+regen), 18s
Regen - 150 potency, 21s
= Better (ours wins hands down no doubt here)

Aspected Benefic: 190 potency + 140 X 6 ticks = 1030 potency
Regen = 150 X 7 ticks = 1050 potency

Regen wins, hands down. Especially because Synastry only affects the initial hit with its extra 40% bonus, 840 potency is only buffed by 20% while Regen's entire duration is buffed (more constantly, too, 60s CD vs 90s CD) by Divine Seal's 30%.

[MidnightTundra]

@Lilith

ASTs regen is 190 + (140 * 6) = 1030

WHMs regen is 150 * 7 = 1050

WHMs regen is still stronger. Until AST uses time dilation on it.

[NamoNanamo]

Whm=> King of aoe heal, deal with it. And that's why he got a safe spot for a1/a3s. He is dealing tons of burst damage too. A2s is pretty cool for that.

MedicaII is much stronger than Aspected Helios mainly cause He has more range (and better tick) AND Divine seal make him even stronger.

Ast is little bit ahead if you are just healing tanks. Synastry is so strong.

Ast is strong(Except noct :P). Whm is strong. They both have advantage and disadvantage. They don't really need buff/nerf. (Just make shuffe impossible to draw the same card)

stuff.

Your post is almost as bad as him.
YOur comparison is awful.

[Lilith_Merquise]

I don't read the summaries of posts

Well hello there "I don't read summaries of posts," outside of me getting the math wrong on Regen (watch out I'm not a math fan! I save the number crunching for the nerds) the rest of it is pretty fair and accurate. Also the emphasis on the post is "RAW" meaning not adding things on top. I already listed how beneficial Divine Seal was, but again I'm not going to sit here and thumb through every combination of spells and abilities, just comparing "like" spells, abilities and traits was the list above, if I put in combinations and rotations that would be obnoxious. So sorry I'm not going to write a Healing guide 101 in this thread discussing possible AST buffs.....

Keep in mind that I'm posting this to say that currently AST isn't "better" then WHM and if anything is more so less then WHM. Proving the point stated prior, false. I'm not saying AST needs everything that WHM has to be functional... No, that's why SCH doesn't have everything that AST has but is still a solid and very sought after healer in raids. How many people do you see shouting for an AST to join their raid that is a serious raider? That is going to pretty much point a finger at how viable the class is in it's current form. So no, don't want it better then and carbon copied, I want it equal but different.

AST is not "Strong" that is a very strong term to use so loosely, especially when you put it alongside the WHM and SCH. Is it complete and utter garbage? No, which is again why I said a skilled player can pick up and run with it fairly well in most content except maybe Savage content, and yes I acknowledge it's possible but other choices are easier making them more go-to.

And sorry but if you're concern is a few malms difference in effective range, you're just being a cry baby, no skilled healer cares because he can figure out how to place himself so that it effects the majority of people. And Skilled players are not all over the map they usually are in a loose cluster knowing they will be hit by AoE's and need AoE cures, I'm not in here to debate every what if of every door knob licker that plays this game, i'm talking people that know how to play it as a team.

^^ Thank you to the three above posters that know how to socially relay information as opposed to being socially challenged, I'll adjust that right away for the sake of the point, as stated to this "poster" math, not really my thing I leave it to the number crunchers, I just go off of what I see right off the top. SO thank you for the suggestion.

[Warr_of_Lint]

It’s getting a little heated in here, but I think everyone means well. I’ve talked to a lot of astrologians, and they say almost nothing makes them happier than seeing balance. We all just want healers to be equal, but unique, which is a challenge.

Regarding the discussions about differences in HoTs between WHM and AST, I don’t know if anyone brought up that in patch 3.0 there was a note that skill/spell speed increase DoTs and HoTs. I suspect the total healing between Regen and Aspected Benefic, etc is somewhat closer than just the potency calculations suggest, due to Diurnal. But I’ve tried Aspected Benefic with and without Arrow and the difference isn't 10%, or maybe I'm not doing it right. Anyone done any research/thoughts on this?

[MidnightTundra]

Dirunal isn't skill speed or spell speed. It is a straight up reduction of the GCD (after spell speed calculations)

It does not have an effect on the power of hots or dots.

[FoxyAreku]

Astrologians are still the worst healer to bring into savage so I doubt it'll get nerfed in any way, it's only uphill from here my friends.

[AzureFlare]

The white mage is an old school type healer for 1.0 days that has been left behind. As others have said astro now have replaced the white mage as the healer to team up with a scholar. And that is not even speaking about the utility and buffs we bring. I am sorry but we are not three months ago. White mage needs more help then we do and the most likely outcome is astro potency nerfs before we should even be given a second glance.

Sorry, but you're absolutely clueless about why AST is behind WHM, and half of it has to do with the way raid encounters are designed in conjunction with the way AST abilities are inflated as multi-purpose tools.

Disregarding Collective Unconsciousness: Synastry is our only healing-boosting CD. Yes, Synastry is really powerful, but most people forget that Synastry doesn't work with HoTs, doesn't work with shields, only transfers single target heals, only boosts 20% of the healing compared to Divine Seal at the cost of a 90s CD but most of all: it saturates really quickly. To get the most out of Synastry, you're expecting the receiving end of Synastry to get damaged consistently 20s, and for it to be useful, the targets of your heals shouldn't be scattered too much (to the point Helios is simply better). It's a ridiculously powerful burst CD, but even then it has a lot of 'buts' and 'ifs' before it meets Divine Seal's strength.

And that's okay, really. But what isn't okay is that a lot of abilities follow this pattern of having to make choices and deciding when it is optimal, while the optimal situation may never be there (cards, synastry optimal conditions) and the payoff for doing it optimal is really small. Celestial Opposition: an ability that either 'merely' extends stuff by 5 seconds and primary used to give you another 1k mana or so on Luminiferous Aether. When used optimally: can extend an AoE card (preferably Balance or Arrow, or bust), CU's Regen, Lightspeed, Sprint, Potion buff, Aspected Helios' regen, Aspected Benefic regen. Sounds like a lot to use it optimally and on top of that, tossing out all of those cooldowns seems very.. overkill. Like, the exact opposite of what a healer normally does, using their CDs according to the encounter. And the worst part is that I feel CO is a fairly worthless CD unless I get half those requirements, for a level 60 ability, yet delaying LA or not getting the CO extension on LA is even more detrimental.

We already have random cards, we don't need balance around optimal situations that almost never happen, or happen enough. That didn't happen with WHM, that didn't happen with SCH, that shouldn't be happening with AST either. What we need is WHM+AST not to be miles behind WHM+SCH/AST + SCH.