Thread: 3.1 : Astrologian "adjustments''

Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

AST is the jack of all trades, master of none. Essentially the "RDM" of the healing class. It isn't a terrible class, but it isn't better then the other two. The problem though is that by taking a WHM and a SCH, there is essentially no reason to take an AST outside of there just not being a WHM or SCH available and making due with what you have. AST in Nocturnal does not = SCH, AST in Diurnal does not = WHM.

Sure I get why AST can't be greater then those classes, but making it fairly equal while in those stances would be beneficial if we ever hope to see AST be more considered. That or SE needs to figure out how to make cards and what AST does so good, that the lack of healing is acceptable because it makes up for it in buffing, to which it currently does not.

What I find funny is that SE recognized that PLD DPS is an issue in the current DPS meta, DRK TP sustainability is an issue even after their small TP adjustment, and AST is still mediocre option compared to other healer classes (again if it's the same skill level and same iLvl, WHM and SCH will beat out AST every time, it's a great class for dungeons, but is lost in serious raids). SO what are they adjusting?

PLD, NIN, BRD minor tp reductions to abilities... yep that should fix PLD's DPS issue in savage content, yep lowering NIN and BRD is super necessary not like DRK could of used even a minor reduction to at least attempt in helping their TP. And AST being able to keep their royal road when enter/leaving dungeons..... because I was really concerned about that.... Now I'll just have to tell my future static to please wait 5 minutes before every run so I can try to roll card for AoE before we enter raid.... I'm sure that will really benefit the class lol.

I'm hoping there is more to this being that this is preliminary but if this is it, I can't hide much of my displeasure in this, especially because I was hoping they would halve or 1/4th the recast timer for MCH Reload as mentioned in the notes @_@....

What about the the astrologian is it not equal with to the white mage in healing now? Potency heals are side by side the same as the white mage and the ability to put out a potentially 1200 instant cast potency heals makes it superior to the white mage now for single target heals. It is a few % behind white mages now but the meta of the game is about burst heals at 60-90 second intervals which the astrologian can deal with as easily as the white mage.

The white mage is an old school type healer for 1.0 days that has been left behind. As others have said astro now have replaced the white mage as the healer to team up with a scholar. And that is not even speaking about the utility and buffs we bring. I am sorry but we are not three months ago. White mage needs more help then we do and the most likely outcome is astro potency nerfs before we should even be given a second glance.

Originally Posted by Vlady

What about the the astrologian is it not equal with to the white mage in healing now? Potency heals are side by side the same as the white mage and the ability to put out a potentially 1200 instant cast potency heals makes it superior to the white mage now for single target heals. It is a few % behind white mages now but the meta of the game is about burst heals at 60-90 second intervals which the astrologian can deal with as easily as the white mage.

The white mage is an old school type healer for 1.0 days that has been left behind. As others have said astro now have replaced the white mage as the healer to team up with a scholar. And that is not even speaking about the utility and buffs we bring. I am sorry but we are not three months ago. White mage needs more help then we do and the most likely outcome is astro potency nerfs before we should even be given a second glance.

The meta is not about burst heals every 60-90s, it's about strong as hell HoTs sustaining the tanks while the healers DPS. WHM is better at that. Regen, Asylum, and and Divine Seal are better than Aspected Benefic, Collective, and Synastry for that purpose, potency wise and consistency wise. The one ace AST has up its sleeve is Essential is better than Tetra for that purpose but it's not a big enough difference.

So you've got the how they DPS, which is in favor of WHM, and then you've got the what they contribute to DPS. Honestly? WHM is at the forefront of that. We're not exactly seeing AST in most of these speed runs, almost none of them actually. Wanna know why? RNG, and WHM DPS >>>>> AST DPS. WHM's ability to DPS, and the raw potencies of said DPS, are so far above AST that cards, even if they weren't an RNG fest with many opportunities to draw useless cards multiple Draws/Shuffles in a row, just don't even match what a WHM is doing.

I checked your profile. Mostly i190/i200 gear. Level 50 WHM. Probably haven't done a savage raid even once yet, much less have the ability to speak on the balance of well played WHM vs AST. I'm going to assume you are just talking out your rear if you honestly believe AST is replacing WHM right now.

Originally Posted by Vlady

A lot of stuff, and a lot of things.

So here are the raw stats put side by side (only comparing Diurnal with WHM)


HEALING
Benefic - 400 Potency
Cure - 400 Potency
= Equal

Helios - 300 Potency
Medica - 300 Potency
= Equal

Benefic II - 650 Potency
Cure II - 650 Potency
= Equal

Aspected Benefic - 240 Cure Potency
Medica II - 250 Cure Potency
= False (And I guess a 10y difference if you're a baby and care about that sort of thing, still doesn't change that this is false @Namo-guy)

???? - ????
Cure III - 550 Cure Potency AoE
= False

Essential Dignity - 400 Potency x Target Missing HP, 40s
Benediction - Restores all Target's HP, 300s
= Depends (do you want instant cap and longer CD, or more large chunk healing with lower CD)

Aspected Benefic - 190 + (140 * 6) = 1030 cure potency , 18s
Regen - 150 *7 = 1050 potency, 21s
= False (thank you for correction @File2ish @Sleigh @MidnightTundra)

Assize - 300 Potency cure to all party members, 300 DPS to all enemies, 10% of max MP restored
Celestial Opposition - Stuns all enemies in range for 4s, increase buffs by 5s
= False (grossly false at that...)

Collective Unconscious - 150 Cure Potency and damaged reduced by 10% (15s)
Asylum - 100 potency (24s)
= Depends (sure AST is stronger here, but it's less duration meaning you can't pop it too early, and it grounds you were as the other does not for less potency)

????? - ??????
Tetragrammaton = Cure Potency 700 (60s recast)
= False (kinda makes up for the benediction being 300 giving WHM 2 big "Oh No Buttons!")


I'm not going to touch the DPS side of things because that is it's own discussion but here lets go into abilities.


ABILITIES
Cards (and abilities relating, draw, shuffle, dilation, etc.) = Their own buffs
???? - ?????
= Better (yep card buffs do help, even if its very small and not very long it is a leg up.)

Synastry = 40% of a cure goes to someone you mark and increases potency by 20% for 20s
Divine Seal = Increases potency of all healing magic by 30% for 15s
= Depends (want 30% for all abilities for everybody lasting 15s, or want 40% of a cure to go to 1 person for 20s, both are beneficial)

Lightspeed = Reduces MP by 25% and cast times by 2.5s reducing magic attack potency by 25% for 10s
Presence of Mind = Increases Spell speed by 20% for 15s
= Depends (mp reduction and caped 2.5 off casting with a -25% dps penalty, or a scaling 20% that doesn't reduce MP cost doesn't reduce potency and lasts longer).


.... Oh and further more that isn't even the traits in which AST is grossly lacking compared to WHM.


TRAITS
Enhanced Light speed - decreases DPS penalty to 25% from 50% (shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Enhanced Medica - 20% Medica MP will b halved.
= False (I would much rather be conservative then given an ability I should have without the trait)

Enhanced Essential Dignity - 40s recast now (shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Quick Stoneskin - 2.5s cast time
= False (I would rather a faster shield then given a trait for what I should already have)

Enhanced Benefic - 15% chance Benefic II will be instant cast.
Freecure - 15% a Cure will make a Cure II Free.
= Depends (a Free cure 2 or a fast one, I would rather free, but fast is helpful in run and gun)

Enhancd Disable - Increase reduction to 10% (Shouldn't need a trait for what it should be)
Overcure - 15% chance your next Cure II will half the cost of your next Cure III
= False (I would rather a cheaper AoE cure option for conservation then an ability I should already have)


7 = FALSE that AST is better then WHM
5 = Depends both are pretty good but somewhat different from each other (essentially a draw but not equal)
2 = BETTER in which AST is technically better then a WHM
3 = EQUAL when AST and WHM are equal in every way.



Right here.... Most of the traits AST gets, are what the abilities should be anyway with out the need of traits making them more reasonable. That's like giving a kid a remote control car, with no wheels, and then on their next birthday giving them the wheels to put on the car.... Where as WHM have traits that enhance what they already have not giving you part of what it is and giving the rest later...

You seem to be recognized for being hard headed and not willing to listen, but I figured I would at least take the time to point out why it is you're wrong, and at least it will give me the access to point it out later when you make this silly claim that AST will replace WHM in some upside down world.

What this shows is that our abilities are slightly different and while AST is best with card buffs and Aspected benefic over Regen. AST is failing in having a 2nd "oh no" button cure, a multi purpose AoE ability (Assize vs C.O.), a third and strongest AoE heal at a stronger potency then the other 2....

We give a massive cure, multi purpose AoE ability, and a 3rd AoE heal..... for cards and a stronger single target regen heal..... Also we give up traits that enhance our classes efficiency for traits that give us the abilities we should already have and yet we are superior?....... You say we'll be replacing WHM how soon again?



I'm not writing this because I think AST should have what WHM has or should be better then WHM, I'm putting this hear because I disagree entirely with AST being better then any current healer, and claiming that it is even equal to the other healers is being far too kind and grossly misinformed... A great healer can make this class work, no doubt, but it would be better if it was actually put on an equal footing with the others rather then held back by it's major setbacks in the healing dept and lack of emphasis on the cards which are meant to make up for its lack of healing.