Kinda laughed

[Freyyy]

Or maybe they know exactly what they're doing, and you're being silly about it. Seriously, folks, they just fixed PLD for you.

But they stated in a very recent interview that they won't bring any DPS buff to PLD. That's why I'm being silly about it. They contradict their own sayings with their actions. That was the only point of the thread. It's not a problem at all since PLD did need a MT DPS buff, but they basically aren't doing what they said they were planning. And that's quite funny.

[eagledorf]

It's not really funny at all. It means Yoshi-p either isn't on top of what his subordinates are doing and planning or he's lying to the subscribers. It's very reminiscent of his statements on personal housing that were just completely off the mark. Either way, they're all clearly out of touch with the situation or they'd notice that this is in no way a sufficient solution to tank TP balance.

It's also very discouraging that he apparently can't convince SE to give him enough money to make three tiers of content difficulty either. Isn't that like the most important part of the producer's job?

Not that I expect him to be aware of everything that's going on between minor patches and the next expansion, but if he doesn't know what's up he should probably refrain from commenting. If somebody asks he can always say it's too sensitive to reveal before the patch notes come out, lol.

[Freyyy]

It's not really funny at all. It means Yoshi-p either isn't on top of what his subordinates are doing and planning or he's outright lying to the subscribers. Either way he's clearly out of touch with the situation or he'd notice that this is in no way a sufficient solution to tank TP balance.

But that's what's funny...

Maybe they didn't think that it would be a DPS increase ? They just wanted shield swipe to be used more often so they said "make it ogcd !" without thinking that it is a direct MT DPS buff.

[Callidus]

Keep in mind the interview where he said there wasn't going to be a DPS buff for PLD was conducted over two weeks ago on October 21st. It's very possible that they decided to include the Swipe change in the intervening two weeks. I'd be surprised if they hadn't considered and tested a number of changes including everything from DPS enhancements to utility improvements - they just may not have 100% settled on the final combination of tweaks until recently.

Though it isn't as much as I was hoping for, the Swipe change seems a move in the right direction. We'll need to see how it turns out in practice and if it still requires a proc before we know just how happy or disappointed we should be.

The TP "fix" is pretty disappointing though. That it took several months and a major patch to get this tiny tweak to us while they went ape tweaking AST potencies in 3.07 seems a bit ridiculous. Though the AST problem prior to 3.07 was admittedly more serious than PLD's TP issues, it seems like such a minor tweak could have been delivered a bit sooner so the community could start providing feedback on the change and, by 3.1, they could have determined if additional changes were necessary as I suspect they will be.

[Jim_Berry]

They don't need dps better emnity though and better AoE.....main reason why I'm hesitant on leveling my PLD.

Man, y'all don't know what y'all want.

People yelling for PLD to get DPS but now you're saying they don't need the DPS?

[eagledorf]

Keep in mind the interview where he said there wasn't going to be a DPS buff for PLD was conducted over two weeks ago on October 21st. [...]

The TP "fix" is pretty disappointing though.

In two weeks they changed from not buffing DPS to basically only buffing DPS and doing almost nothing else whatsoever? Even if that were true it just means that they spent 2 months sitting on their hands and then came up with something else at the last second. There's no excuse, this is a very bad show.

The TP "fix" is a "break it even worse for everything but A4S". Now if anybody other than WAR is in their tank stance, you need to give them TP. Like 3 min for PLD and like 2.5 for DRK.

[Isius]

I haven't played PLD in a while but I'm curious how else these changes alter the dynamics of the class.

The other thing that changes with this is single target enmity. So how does that alter the use of RoH, especially in fights with limited Physical Damage.

Things to consider:

Additional Royal Authority uses due to not needing to maintain Enmity with RoH (TP cost of RA vs RoH?)

- As a complete package how does that alter PLD performance?

I'll try to explain it, but I don't think I am the best at explaining things. But since some people are panicking about the changes still, and saying they are nerfs, I'll try. (Mostly towards the Shield Swipe changes)

Current 3.1 changes :

Shield Swipe - Is now an ability and does not trigger global cooldown.
Recast time has been adjusted to 15 seconds.
Potency has been reduced from 210 to 150.

Goring Blade - TP cost has been reduced from 60 to 50.

Shield Bash - TP cost has been reduced from 150 to 120.

How it changes Plds Performance:

Shield Swipe 3.1 Changes:

First off Shield Swipe is a move only good if Pld is tanking and taking hits. In 3.1 the move will be placed ogcd, and turns into a ability with a cd of 15secs, since it is on cd, and a ablility now. I am assuming it no longer has any tp cost of 40tp, so yay. Even with the attack potency going from 210 to 150 it is still free dmg, since it is ogcd, and you can weave it inbetween gcds. This skill is indeed rng, but with Sheltron you should be able to get 2 off per minute even if rng hates you. So it is extra of 300 potency up to a max of 600 of free dmg per minute. Also 3.1 changes said nothing about removing Shield Swipe's enmity generation now. So it will only increase Plds single taget enmity, so in short it's a increase to single target dmg, and enmity, and it is all FREE.

Now lets take this further with the increase dmg/enmity from Shield Swipe a Pld will not have to output as many Rage of Halone anymore, we'll have to see in 3.1 with testing, but this could lead to Pld able solely focused on using it's more damaging combos like Goring Blade, and Royal Authority. This leads to Pld able to do more damage in general. So Buffing Shield Swipe is a direct buff in dps for Pld from just moving Shield Swipe to a ogcd, and also a indirect dps increase allowing Pld to use it's more damaging combos more often, since you don't have to worry about aggro as much. But again this dmg increase is just a mt dps increase for Pld. Pld's ot dps is really not affected at all by this change, unless a Pld just tanks a add or something to get it's Shield Swipes procs for more dmg on a boss. A way for a cheeky Pld to increase it's dps as a ot I guess, but that will be rare. xD

As for Shield Swipes usefulness, it will be a very good with 3.1 changes, but still is a rng skill that relies on blocks. This could lead to bad rng scenarios, but still with Sheltron, I don't think it will be as bad. But yes magic can't be blocked, not allowing Shield Shield to proc, but atm magic dmg is mostly tank busters, or raid dmg atm. But if something wierd was introduced like mobs auto attacks being only magical based, and not physical, then this 3.1 buff to Shield Swipe would mean nothing.

Overall I think Shield Swipe is a great buff, and a bigger buff then most people are taking it credit for currently. But this skill will need testing when 3.1 comes out, and we'll see how good it really is in actual use.

Goring Blade 3.1 Changes:

I don't really have much to say about this one. It is still a buff but a very minor one imo, and doesn't really prevent Plds from hitting TP starvation any slower. You get like an extra 10tp per 9gcds. Idk seems minor to me, but might help out with tp if you are running out before "jump" points of a fight or running out on prolonged fights where you just beat on the boss for 8 minutes straight. It will help out a little. Like I know, I almost run out of tp as a Pld before the 1st jump in A1S, so it might help there for Pld players running out of tp faster then I do, just the buff seems minor to me, but it does help. But I could be wrong how much this tp change does help out...other people with more experience then me might know better. Idk

Shield Bash 3.1 Changes:

I think this one was needed badly for Pld, but I wish they buffed it more, but anyways SE is reducing it from 150tp to 120tp cost. This helps out a ton for Pld if you are in A3S or A4S if you are on stun duty in A3S for Slimes, and A4S for Steam. 150tp really chews hard into Plds tp badly, so it coming down to a 120tp cost helps out a lot in that area when you have to stun, and with the Goring Blade tp cost reduced it will just help out with Plds tp I guess for fights like A3S, and A4S to not reach tp starvation as fast.


As for you question, "As a complete package how does that alter PLD performance?" The Shield Swipe changes might allow Plds be able to mt bosses in Sword Oath without worrying about maintaining aggro, and never needing to use RoH combo once for aggro, making RoH a combo something you only want to use for the physical dmg down debuff. Pld dps could be higher when mting, then it's ot dps, while it has Sword Oath up with the 3.1 changes, and Pld will not get tp drained as much currently if you are a Pld having tp starvation issues.



***Personally I would still like to see Plds utilities buffed aswell***

[Callidus]

In two weeks they changed from not buffing DPS to basically only buffing DPS and doing almost nothing else whatsoever? Even if that were true it just means that they spent 2 months sitting on their hands and then came up with something else at the last second. There's no excuse, this is a very bad show.

I totally agree.

I just wanted to make the point that, though it's still bizarre, we're looking at information sources a couple weeks apart that just happened to be published a couple days apart. Too lazy to look up who said it, but there was an implication that Yoshi-P must not know what's happening to his own game because he said no DPS buff just a couple days before the patch note preview announced a DPS buff, minor though it may be. I doubt he read the release notes with the rest of us and went "Huh, we changed Shield Swipe? Cool, I guess."

Hair splitting aside, I agree it makes the dev process look more chaotic than I would like to imagine.

[Reynhart]

As for you question, "As a complete package how does that alter PLD performance?" The Shield Swipe changes might allow Plds be able to mt bosses in Sword Oath without worrying about maintaining aggro

There's just a tiny bit of a problem.
To use Shield Swipe, you need to block. Something that was thrown out of the way with the huge focus on magic attacks.
We can imagine that next raids will give us more physical hits, which will instantly make PLD a much better tank...but largely cripple DRK...and would only be a fake balance between the three tanks.

DRK and PLD are only shining when content is specifically designed for them, which is a very deep issue.

As for increasing PLD damage output...ok, it's cool, but if they want each tank to be interesting, they have to put the emphasis on something else than surviving (Which all tanks can obviously do) or DPS (Where you'll probably always one above the other)

[Nektulos-Tuor]

There's just a tiny bit of a problem.
To use Shield Swipe, you need to block. Something that was thrown out of the way with the huge focus on magic attacks.
We can imagine that next raids will give us more physical hits, which will instantly make PLD a much better tank...but largely cripple DRK...and would only be a fake balance between the three tanks.

DRK and PLD are only shining when content is specifically designed for them, which is a very deep issue.

As for increasing PLD damage output...ok, it's cool, but if they want each tank to be interesting, they have to put the emphasis on something else than surviving (Which all tanks can obviously do) or DPS (Where you'll probably always one above the other)

Its not like monsters auto-attack or anything.

Honestly, having "Magical" and "Physical" tanks is just bad game design.

Dark Mind needs to be changed to straight non-autoattack damage reduction and paladin needs its stuff to work for everything.