Kinda laughed

[Judge_Xero]

I'll try to explain it, but I don't think I am the best at explaining things. But since some people are panicking about the changes still, and saying they are nerfs, I'll try. (Mostly towards the Shield Swipe changes)

Thanks for the run-down.

If oGCD Swipe does allow less RoH and more RA that's exactly the result I would expect. I couldn't remember the TP cost of the various other skills, but it looks like GB, RoH, RA all had 60 TP costs. What I was thinking was if RoH had a 70 TP cost or something like that and you could regularly swap it for RA @ 60 TP then you would have a consistent savings of 10 TP per combo set. But since RA and RoH both cost 60 TP there will only be the new 10 TP savings simply due to GB, which I guess would only add up in a multi dotting situation.

So 600 Potency/min ideal just from Swipe change
Then swapping all RoH to RA = 240 Potency/min

Total increase @ 14 Potency/s in Shield Oath

Others have noted that with PLD's current skillset, Shield Swipe was generally a DPS loss while being a TP gain over what the current changes will be. So you could factor in a little bit more DPS gain having oGCD Swipe, with a slightly higher decrease in TP.

Maybe 15-16 Potency/s if you compare to someone conserving TP?

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How could that benefit Sword Oath tanking if enmity is an issue not using RoH? Would it be a great benefit for PLD Sword Oath tanking while keeping a lead on a high DPS War OT?

Probably based on a
GB -> RoH -> RA combo rotation due to being in SWO it might be worth keeping up RoH anyways.

The average TP per GCD has increased for those of you have been using Swipe in between Goring Blade during MT to save TP, so its actually an "increase in DPS and nerf in TP" so its exactly the opposite of what has been said during the interview.

Goring Blade -> RA -> RA -> Swipe
((70+60+60)*3+40)/ 10 GCDs = 61 TP per GCD

new Goring Blade -> RA -> RA
(70+60+50+(70+60+60)*2)/ 9 GCDs = 62.2 TP per GCD

If you take this value of a 2% TP requirement increase per GCD and then factor in the average Potency/s increase VS PLD's total Potency/s then you can come up with a value of TP that PLD can save while still maintaining a relative DPS value. -> meaning, X is the number of GCD's that can be reserved for non GCD skills while still maintaining X DPS value and conserving X TP value in doing so.

i.e. if the changes are a total of a 10% DPS increase for only a 2% TP increase, then any time you are using other resources, MP etc and conserving TP @ the same DPS value as before, then there is a net gain in performance.

I guess it just needs to be determined if that net gain is worth it over whatever a DRK, WAR has to offer.

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Just tossing out ideas but - Clemency for Prey mechanics, or what if on A3S Divine Veil (shield) + SCH Shield was enough to neutralize the Hand of Parting mechanic to where no one got debuffed due to the shields absorbing all the mechanic damage from ignoring it, meaning higher AOE damage on both adds.

[Isius]

Thanks for the run-down.

If oGCD Swipe does allow less RoH and more RA that's exactly the result I would expect. I couldn't remember the TP cost of the various other skills, but it looks like GB, RoH, RA all had 60 TP costs. What I was thinking was if RoH had a 70 TP cost or something like that and you could regularly swap it for RA @ 60 TP then you would have a consistent savings of 10 TP per combo set. But since RA and RoH both cost 60 TP there will only be the new 10 TP savings simply due to GB, which I guess would only add up in a multi dotting situation.

Yeah GB is good if you are tanking several mobs at once, you can just apply GB on several targets at once over, and over, and might aswell do it too if you know mobs will not die fast since GB is Plds most damaging skill atm.

TP saved in this situtation would be nice if I just spammed GB in mob groups.

[Callidus]

Keep in mind the interview where he said there wasn't going to be a DPS buff for PLD was conducted over two weeks ago on October 21st. It's very possible that they decided to include the Swipe change in the intervening two weeks. I'd be surprised if they hadn't considered and tested a number of changes including everything from DPS enhancements to utility improvements - they just may not have 100% settled on the final combination of tweaks until recently.

Though it isn't as much as I was hoping for, the Swipe change seems a move in the right direction. We'll need to see how it turns out in practice and if it still requires a proc before we know just how happy or disappointed we should be.

The TP "fix" is pretty disappointing though. That it took several months and a major patch to get this tiny tweak to us while they went ape tweaking AST potencies in 3.07 seems a bit ridiculous. Though the AST problem prior to 3.07 was admittedly more serious than PLD's TP issues, it seems like such a minor tweak could have been delivered a bit sooner so the community could start providing feedback on the change and, by 3.1, they could have determined if additional changes were necessary as I suspect they will be.

[eagledorf]

Keep in mind the interview where he said there wasn't going to be a DPS buff for PLD was conducted over two weeks ago on October 21st. [...]

The TP "fix" is pretty disappointing though.

In two weeks they changed from not buffing DPS to basically only buffing DPS and doing almost nothing else whatsoever? Even if that were true it just means that they spent 2 months sitting on their hands and then came up with something else at the last second. There's no excuse, this is a very bad show.

The TP "fix" is a "break it even worse for everything but A4S". Now if anybody other than WAR is in their tank stance, you need to give them TP. Like 3 min for PLD and like 2.5 for DRK.

[Callidus]

In two weeks they changed from not buffing DPS to basically only buffing DPS and doing almost nothing else whatsoever? Even if that were true it just means that they spent 2 months sitting on their hands and then came up with something else at the last second. There's no excuse, this is a very bad show.

I totally agree.

I just wanted to make the point that, though it's still bizarre, we're looking at information sources a couple weeks apart that just happened to be published a couple days apart. Too lazy to look up who said it, but there was an implication that Yoshi-P must not know what's happening to his own game because he said no DPS buff just a couple days before the patch note preview announced a DPS buff, minor though it may be. I doubt he read the release notes with the rest of us and went "Huh, we changed Shield Swipe? Cool, I guess."

Hair splitting aside, I agree it makes the dev process look more chaotic than I would like to imagine.

[Alvent]

The average TP per GCD has increased for those of you have been using Swipe in between Goring Blade during MT to save TP, so its actually an "increase in DPS and nerf in TP" so its exactly the opposite of what has been said during the interview.

Goring Blade -> RA -> RA -> Swipe
((70+60+60)*3+40)/ 10 GCDs = 61 TP per GCD

new Goring Blade -> RA -> RA
(70+60+50+(70+60+60)*2)/ 9 GCDs = 62.2 TP per GCD

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Honestly some bosses need a "ranged" autoattack.

Which would actually be cool for casters.

[Brannigan]

They should probably reduce the DoT timer of Goring Blade to 21s and just make the initial hit do 260 to cover up that gap now that shield swipe won't space it anymore. I guess you can toss in a f r a c t u r e . . .



Oh.

(I think with slashing debuff it's a loss anyway iirc. Just kinda crappy that we have this janked up DoT overwriting rotation even while tanking blockable stuff now)


nm wait I figured it out. We're supposed to fill the gap with Clemency. That's what makes this such a great TP gain and not a DPS buff.

[Judge_Xero]

nm wait I figured it out. We're supposed to fill the gap with Clemency. That's what makes this such a great TP gain and not a DPS buff.

That's what I figure, as well. DRK can use MP offensive skills as TP recovery. SE could be shifting the PLD meta more towards party support which alters the party synergy more towards healer DPS to equalize the balance.

[Xenosan]

That's why I label it as viable but not practical. It's so easily nullified by other restoring actions by the healers. Even if Stoneskin doesn't provide as much ehp recovery it is at least less likely to be overwritten by your healers, and that's something we've had access to before Heavensward. Beating a dead horse imo. It is nice in PVP though.