Roles need to be changed to better reflect the game.

[Kuwagami]

snip.

It's funny how when you don't overgear an instance (aka during leveling, at the start of a game/extension) the trinity is respected a lot more than it is when you roll over a i142 dungeon in i200.

Were you here in early 2.0 when people had their levelling gear and were struggling surviving in regular dungeons ? Even the very first dungeons had hardly any room to breath if you were taking more than one pack at a time. Hard to tell with the overleveling and overgearing now, but even in end game, cape westwind, castrum meridianum and the praetorium were difficult in their time. So were ifrit, garuda or Titan HM. Even Garuda story mode...

[Warlyx]

i dont min dpsing at the start of a boss or initial huge pull with dots and bane on dungeons, i dont raid as healer or tank , but i still see the healers trying to push numbers and same goes for tanks.... one of the healers doesnt mind , the other is TIRED of it....and i know that feeling i dont signed for this when i started playing WHM! is like asking a blm to tank an add in every boss for a while....at first it sounds fun blm tanking hehe , but im playing blm to blow stuff , not take hits....

[Krylo]

It's funny how when you don't overgear an instance (aka during leveling, at the start of a game/extension) the trinity is respected a lot more than it is when you roll over a i142 dungeon in i200.

Were you here in early 2.0 when people had their levelling gear and were struggling surviving in regular dungeons ? Even the very first dungeons had hardly any room to breath if you were taking more than one pack at a time. Hard to tell with the overleveling and overgearing now, but even in end game, cape westwind, castrum meridianum and the praetorium were difficult in their time. So were ifrit, garuda or Titan HM. Even Garuda story mode...

2.0 no. I was in the 1.0 beta and came back around, I don't know. . . 2.2ish? 2.3? Pharos Sirius was one of the harder dungeons at the time, it was pre-nerf. So whenever that was. It was awhile ago and the primals were still 'hard'.

But they weren't 'so hard the healer has to spam heals the entire time and the tank will lose aggro if they do anything wrong'. There were maybe a couple bosses where healers had to be particularly on point--which isn't that much different from now. But in the vast vast vast majority of pulls healers could DPS and in most bosses tanks could stance dance. Hell, a whm holy spamming done right also works as mitigation.

But here's the thing: Look at the people complaining 'it puts tanks and healers under undue duress' 'it's stressful to have to dps' etc. etc.

What's more stressful, really? Pushing a couple extra buttons to toss out some quick DPS, where if you screw up, or even don't do it, outside of the hardest current raids no one actually gives a shit nine out of ten times, or having to constantly spam your heals while maintaining mana while the tank is constantly on the verge of death? I've done both at various points from 1-50 (particularly memorable was the tank who accidentally pulled about half of the swamp in brayflox normal), and the heal spamming is a hell of a lot more stressful. What's more stressful as a Pld? Those levels between 30 and 40 when you don't have shield oath yet and have to struggle to for every little ounce of aggro, or hitting sword stance on the rafflesia knock off in Sohm Al during the phases when he's not hitting you anyway (read: almost the entire fight).

These people are complaining about the STRESS that DPSing gives them. You really think they aren't going to be on here whining about the much much much higher stress levels that come with actually having to spam cure 2/using every damage CD perfectly NOT FOR DAMAGE but just to try and keep their aggro up?

Really? That's a thing you think?

[Fevelle]

@OP
As scholar i'm happy to be able to heal/dps i find it exciting and fun not stressful. If you feel stressed by a job so this job isn't for you imo. If i wasn't able to dps too, god it would be so borring....i cannot understand all those healers who prefer wait and cast one cure every 20 sec like a robot instead of using all the skills they can IF the situation allows it.

No healer ever said he wants to just stand there. We want to heal. This game doesn't require full-time healing and that's why it's flawed.

As a WHM I personally find it stressful to DPS. One of the reason is because I have diagnosed anxiety problems and something that others think is ok is like hell for me (like a tank going down to 100HP before Benediction - I won't panic, but I'll stay all the time in full alert mode thinking "oh my god I'll let the tank die and he will hate me and I'm gonna be kicked"). I only DPS because I'm expected to, not because I like it.

I wish SQEX would increase the healing necessity on DF dungeons and remove CS from dungeon use. The problems would be solved, but no, some people want to DPS, because you know, they rolled a healer to deal damage.

When I get into battles in other final fantasy games, when no healing is needed I make my healers attack enemies. No point in just letting them stand there and do nothing.

Or you could use their downtime to buff your party with the 9999 different Nul-element spells, Floats, Haste, Valor and other awesome buffs... Oh, but I forgot there are no such things as buffs in FFXIV outside of useless MP-sinks (Stoneskin) and HoTs... Maybe AST can do that, but still, in the current flawed Healer DPS meta, the buffs aren't good enough to make up for the damage on downtime.

This is game is the most strange one I ever played when it comes to healing. We pop a HoT on tanks and proceed to deal damage. Yup, that's some complex healing we have here.

[Vlady]

When I get into battles in other final fantasy games, when no healing is needed I make my healers attack enemies. No point in just letting them stand there and do nothing.

Lol. I totally misread your statement. I thought you was trying to force the healer in your group to dps. Was thinking I would never group with you ever but nm. Carry on heh.

[LeeraSorlan]

As someone who doesnt do 5 dps on a job and has absolutely no issues dpsing as a tank or a healer if i need to, i just want to say i hate hate HATE the direction this games heading, i hate the extreme enrages, i hate the extreme dps checks, i hate all of it, this is more toward savage.

I quit raiding because of these, they are not fun, they are terribley designed fights in Which everyone must dps to win, forget about mechanics, just copy paste coil ones and throw in 50 dps checks!!
Fun as a tank is not maximizing my dps, it is minimizing my damage received.
Fun as a healer is not maximizing my dps, it is micro-managing my heals, regens and cooldowns.


Even outside of alex i am expected to dps on a non dps class. I do it because thats just how this game is, not because i really want to.


Give the option, yes. But we should not be forced

[SonKevin]

but the introduction of DRK didn't screw anything up..

Yes, it did. I think you're disregarding the reason why people play certain classes. People gravitate to a class that they enjoy. People play WARs because they enjoy doing higher damage as a tank. People play BLMs because they love nuking something from a far. People play MNKs because they love the idea of punching something to death. However, classes like DRK, SCH go ahead and reinforce the DPS mentality. DRK has all sorts of flashy damage moves that makes people think hitting something with a two handed sword is strong and cool. So they want to DPS more just like a WAR. Now there's pressure for PLDs to do the same, but they can't.

@OP
As scholar i'm happy to be able to heal/dps

Not all healers have a pet that follows them around and does the majority of the healing. Just saiyan.

[Seryl199]

No healer ever said he wants to just stand there. We want to heal. This game doesn't require full-time healing and that's why it's flawed.

Healer DPS will always exist unless it's definitively put down by the developers. There will always be players that are more skilled than the content requires. Healers DPS in the hardest raid in the game. If content was released where even those healers had to heal full time, it would be far beyond the abilities of your average player.

As far as support skills instead of DPS, DPS is a very powerful tool, even when you don't consider DPS checks. DPS ends the fight, no more damage is taken. Support skills would need to be definitively more powerful than the DPS a healer can contribute. Your support needs to be more powerful than ending the fight, and that's no small thing considering healers are already overpowered compared to most content they face.

I don't disagree entirely, there is a lot of room for improvement to make healing more engaging, but some significant design changes need to come into play to turn the meta on it's head. I heard of the potential of challenging 4 man content that is being carefully considered because of the burden it will put on healers, perhaps we will get lucky and that kind of content flourishes as a first step to more engaging healing outside of raids.

[Risvertasashi]

Healer DPS will always exist unless it's definitively put down by the developers. There will always be players that are more skilled than the content requires. Healers DPS in the hardest raid in the game. If content was released where even those healers had to heal full time, it would be far beyond the abilities of your average player.

If you saw that solo heal video of Alex 3 Savage... that healer still DPSed here and there, yeah.

All that said... I do realize the practical difficulties but I would still prefer if SE found a way for us to be supporting instead of DPSing. Or at least had an end-of-dungeon popup with total damage, so when I end up in second or first place the DPS might think "maybe I should step it up..."

[Urthdigger]

No healer ever said he wants to just stand there. We want to heal. This game doesn't require full-time healing and that's why it's flawed.

...do you seriously want every fight, no matter how overgeared you are for it, no matter how casual the content, to have SO MUCH damage incoming on a tank properly using their cooldowns that the healer needs to be constantly spamming their highest level cure just to keep them upright?

Because that's seriously the only way you're going to have full-time healing being required.