Roles need to be changed to better reflect the game.

[SonKevin]

As evident with the people on this forum, I believe that role names should be changed. I think it will clarify a lot of questions the fan base has and would let SE finally come to terms with the game they made. Here are the roles and their new names:

Tank ---> DPS that can take hits
Healer ---> DPS that can heal
DPS ---> DPS that can't meet DPS checks without the other two roles DPSing

I know the names are long, but I think it would completely help people understand the horrible abomination that this game created in regards to roles. I know now that I will never be a tank and I know now a healer will never be allowed to be a healer. They must DPS. They must use the skills that were implemented to make it easier for them to solo content in dungeon/raid content so they can finish a dungeon an extra minute or two earlier while putting those two classes under duress while DPS continues to chug along with no issues.

[Zojha]

Well...people were saying the trinity is archaic.

Now we have nuanced unity. We're all DPS before yoshida.

[SonKevin]

Well...people were saying the trinity is archaic.

Now we have nuanced unity. We're all DPS before yoshida.

The trinity is kind of archaic. The biggest problem this game was compromising on support characters. FFXI did it right. FFXIV still can't decide the game it wants to be.

[File2ish]

...FFXI did it right...

As someone who loves FFXI and actively played it for a few years...

What they got right was the jobs were unique and were completely focused on the role they were given and each job felt unique. What they didn't get right was game balance. They didn't even try to balance it until the end of the game's life.

Nobody wanted a Puppetmaster because of lower damage and utility than other jobs. Beastmaster was the "solo" job. You were bad if you utilized any not heal/haste/refresh ability as RDM in a group ("HEAL, HASTE, REFRESH ONRY!"). Warrior, the original tank in XI, was generally used as a DD to let the PLD or NIN tank (assuming PLD or NIN in party). PLD would lose out on tank spots in the party to NIN because blink tanking was better overall, especially if the enemy didn't have AoEs to eat the shadows. Rangers could easily rip hate from tanks if they weren't careful, and tanks could forget about pulling the mob off the ranger if the ranger decided to pull.

A good RDM/NIN (main job/sub job) could (slowly) solo nearly anything with proper use of Stoneskin, Blink, Utsusemi Ichi, Utsusemi Ni, Refresh, and Regen while under the effect of Composure. Dancer could do the same (to a lesser extent because they are very squishy) because of it's near infinite TP pool to heal.

I could go on and on about the poor balance in FFXI. At least in XIV they're trying to make sure no players get left out of content simply because they chose the "wrong" job.

But yeah, particularly in super high end content all jobs seem to be expected to push DPS no matter what and it may be hurting the game. Lower level content people don't seem to care if the tank is stacking STR gear or the healer doesn't want to DPS.

[Krokov]

The trinity is kind of archaic. The biggest problem this game was compromising on support characters. FFXI did it right. FFXIV still can't decide the game it wants to be.

Aye FFXI did indeed do it right, despite what others may say to the contrary.

[Azazua_azura]

Aye FFXI did indeed do it right, despite what others may say to the contrary.

yes and no, the flavor of the mnth job aspect was bull.

And OP you pretty much just descriped DCUO

job role: tank heal support

class role: dps.

had to reach level 10 to unlock ur job role which....... ppl hardly used or switched on the fly to attient certain gear.

personally speaking i rather SE keep the roles, and not allow players to control that aspect of the game cuz players ruined fun jobs in ff11. Forcing a rdm to heal reguardless of it being their weakest skill was bull. Forcing smn to heal (only able if they cross class whm) was a slap in the face. and Forcing ninja to be tanks, (only possible with war sub) was just... too expensive.
rpg are infact called role playing games and it better to set players up in sactioned party based roles then leave them to their own devises,

the trinity is alive in this game due to how the duty finder system was sep up.

also ff14 1.0 had no jobs all classes was considered dps you had to make a tank healer ext using the cross class system. This meant that if u didn't play according to the community i was not allowed to party up and level.

[Delily]

The trinity is kind of archaic. The biggest problem this game was compromising on support characters. FFXI did it right. FFXIV still can't decide the game it wants to be.

People calling the trinity archaic do not understand online game design or group organization. The trinity is the easiest way for developers to communicate the design and role of a given class. It's the easiest way to categorize classes so that when either people or systems are building group to clear content, it eliminates the paradox of choice of give people a set of solid options.

FFXIV has a clear identity, it's a raiding MMO. It has a few classes that have extremely well defined roles. It eschews traditional means of support for good reasons. Either you need to bring a support character with you (ala bard in FFXI) or you can replace them with another damage class and clear content faster.

FFXI was also a raiding game, but it had a plethora of classes that had no clear design and became niched to particular areas of the game that changed as the game was updated. The classic example is the ninja , who was intended to be a pure damage class, but was turned into a tank class. Sure that sounds fun from the player perspective, but from a developer perspective, it adds unneeded complexity to balance.

[Tilgung]

FFXI did it right.

You mean that game where you only needed 1 healer, 1 bard, 1 corsair, 2 samurai and a thief for every ounce of content?

Well, replace the thief with another samurai in the second and third party if an alliance is actually 'required'.

[SonKevin]

You mean that game where you only needed 1 healer, 1 bard, 1 corsair, 2 samurai and a thief for every ounce of content?

Well, replace the thief with another samurai in the second and third party if an alliance is actually 'required'.

That hurts my DRK heart so much. So many night sitting in my mog home waiting for that party invite that would never come. That's the true suffering of the DRK.

[Tilgung]

That hurts my DRK heart so much. So many night sitting in my mog home waiting for that party invite that would never come. That's the true suffering of the DRK.

To be fair, you guys did have a perma-spot if you were appropriately geared for a good while. Admittedly, appropriately geared meant a 100mil+ weapon. Or a weapon, that during the time it was king, involved getting and entire Dynamis Linkshell (36+ players) to dedicate about a year to obtaining for you.

LOLDRG for life, except for the time in Abyssea where the extremely rare Ryunohige Dragoonss were the absolute strongest DPS in the game by miiiiles. In Abyssea.

Because XI did everything right.