Savage Clear rate being lower the Devs expected, good or a bad thing?

[Alahra]

It does however need to be properly balanced for normal and hardcore raiders

I'm pretty sure that's basically what Zosia is saying, too. Coil appealed to about 10% of the population, while the current Savage implementation is certainly reaching a smaller number (I don't want to throw out a number since we don't have data for the entire raid cycle yet). That's why the numbers aspect is important, because if the number players engaging with content is too small relative to the development time required for that content, it no longer becomes viable for the dev team to *create* that content.

[Mike555]

(I don't want to throw out a number since we don't have data for the entire raid cycle yet).

Even if the number were to double by the end of the cycle we'd be looking at 4000 players with clears. In a game with supposedly 700k subscribers, less than 1% clear rate.

[zosia]

What I am getting from him is they should cater to the largest audience possible for content that is meant to be hard and in Savage mode's case, brutally difficult. The content is not meant for a large audience, but the said people having difficulties can wait till echo buff. It is the best balance in the content. It appeals to normal raiders and hardcore raiders. People might condemn me for comparing to WoW, but they used that structure for yearssuccessfully. I don't agree with the easy mode they put in either, but it doesn't truly affect the raiding experience in the long run. The reality of FFXIV is unless the raid team wants to step up their game, is to only have two difficulty settings. I would rather cater to people wanting more long term raid content than one real easy raid and one challenging raid.

Again, this content is not meant for the large audience, never meant to be, the numbers argument does not hold much water. It does however need to be properly balanced for normal and hardcore raiders, and the set up similar to SCoB is the way to go, just done better. That balance 3.0 raids are lacking is why people are quitting raiding.

WoW has the talent pool size to support heroic raiding. For many of the alex savage raid teams, your "git gud" argument means they have to replace weak links. This game does not have the same population as WoW and that creates a lack of talented hardcore raiders. Have you had to replace anyone on your raid team recently? It's an absolute nightmare.

Sure it does, it cheapened the entire raiding experience this tier.

Your long term goals =/= everyone's long term goals. It could have been a long term goal for a raid team to down FCoB before the echo came out. You are simply assuming that your long term goals are the best long term goals and that they are the only ones worth catering to.


It must hold something because that is the justification SE is using to change the current end game model.


The issue is much more complicated than "balance."

[Yukiko]

I see: So, thats what you are scheming square enix... nice and devilish

They have done it for collecting data...
Now they have prove for designing new content...

[Fersaken]

I don't know I think currently the content is far to hard, It allows for 0 mistakes while keeping a 80-90% error free rotation for most classes.

My biggest problem with this is that it is only gear toward good people, and statics fall apart because of this. For 4 weeks we only had 7 people that 8th person was always a pug. It was rather heartbreaking and it made most people want to quit, when we constantly kept wiping @ 3-7%. Not to mention the paladin ( me ) was always the lowest dps, and the comment was made multiple times that I should roll a dark knight, because hey theres 200-300 more dps, then my 400-500.

Needless to say I am currently working on hitting 60 on all of my jobs, once that is done if I can't find a decent static I will more than likely unsub, no point in staying if I can not raid.

[melisande]

This 'edngame' in this patch just blows. It's either face roll alexander normal, or deal with NA/EU terrible attitudes in savage.

[Mike555]

WoW has the talent pool size to support heroic raiding. For many of the alex savage raid teams, your "git gud" argument means they have to replace weak links. This game does not have the same population as WoW and that creates a lack of talented hardcore raiders. Have you had to replace anyone on your raid team recently? It's an absolute nightmare.

This is pretty much the main problem. Add to that the fact that WoW has functional cross servers systems and it's easy to see why mythic raiding is infinitely more popular than savage. The bottom half of each datacenter have no raid scene to speak of. 2-3 groups isnt a scene. The top half has a couple servers where you have some chance of finding a competent group that can actually clear savage, but its gonna take months to actually get in.

[Magis]

It's not the difficulty of it that's the problem. The problem is why would players be motivated to do it when the content was already completed in Alex normal. It doesn't make sense. For the weapon. For what? To be over powered in casual content for a couple months until the next raid? Not worth it. Not to mention animus weapons will probably be BIS anyway .

Basically the reason why our static raided all of Coil, but we haven't bother with Savage Alex. Boring instance with everything spoiled thanks to Normal mode. Oh well.

[Zumi]

What I got out of the interview is that they wanted to make an easy medium and hard difficulties but don't have the funds to do so. They currently made their (Normal "easy" mode) and (hard "savage" mode) raid with nothing in the middle, and they don't want to do normal / savage again. What I am guessing they will do is have their easy and medium levels of difficulty for 3.2 and not do a savage difficulity. They will have the easy mode which will be called normal lot like what we have now because the majority of their casual playerbase likes this mode, then they will have a hard mode which will more or less replace savage and it will just be Alex hard will actually be the but it will actually be more like FCOB difficulity which wasn't really that hard in the 2.0 raids.

They SE probably seen some people quitting cause they can't do savage A3/A4 (look at all the stories about their group falling a part or fc mass quitting because they can't beat this) and they want to keep those more casual middle of the road players over the top 0.1% happy.

They already said there will be nerfs to A3/A4 in 3.15 if the clear rate doesn't go up so I can't see them doing something as hard as A3/A4 again with 3.2, because they want to keep more subs to the game.

[Gardes]

I quit within two weeks of entering A1S and haven't really played since but you know, I haven't really seen anyone mentioning this. Does nobody think that A1 and A2 feels like a T1 (best raid environment) and T4 rehash, except much more lame? It just feels so lazy to me. Even T6 and T10 had unique central mechanics that was pretty cool to me (get on the patch or get sucked in/let's form a man train to not die).

I was honestly really disappointed. I entered the normal version first before the savage version (duh) and was really hoping that rehash feeling I got in A1N was just for the never-raid players that somehow never bothered with coil and was hoping the A1S version was gonna be different like going from Garuda HM to Garuda EX but I felt like I was slapped in the face when I actually got to A1S.