Savage Clear rate being lower the Devs expected, good or a bad thing?

[RiceisNice]

What? The clears for Savage aren't as projected so lets make Normal harder? That sounds alot like a 'hardcore raider' argument. The problem isn't Alexander Normal, the problem as was pointed out in this thread is how the 'hardcore raiders' don't want to help anyone they feel is 'not good'. I think Miscreant has the right of it, casual raiders (note the lack of 's there) are getting there, but given the lack of people willing to help them nail down strategies, it's taking a while. "But they can just watch a video, what's the hold up?" Because watching a video isn't learning the fight. It's just watching a video.

Except the majority players aren't hardcore players. Making normal mode "harder" would address part of the problem where the midcore people have no appealing content because normal is too easy, while savage is too difficult. The thread you linked only addresses the state of PF and the lack of people clearing content, not necessarily the lack of people clearing savage (which as someone mentioned, is limited to 1-2 groups per realm on average).

My group is me and 7 other casual-to-midcore raiders. We grouped together with the intention of making a fairly lax approach to raiding with only three 3-hour raid days per week. Not a lot of time to raid, and certianly not enough time for retention when it comes to learning point-specific mecahnics. Having something like "people being more willing to teach" does not resolve the problem that we don't exactly have the people to teach in the first place. And this is applicable to most of the realms that have a relatively weak population (IE, not greg)

[Malevicton]

Should just scrap normal and adjust savage to coil difficulty.

Not because I hate casuals or something, but the point of normal was supposed to be to let everyone experience the story and the story this time around is garbage, so normal doesn't serve much of a purpose.

[KingOfAbyss]

Except the majority players aren't hardcore players. Making normal mode "harder" would address part of the problem where the midcore people have no appealing content because normal is too easy, while savage is too difficult. The thread you linked only addresses the state of PF and the lack of people clearing content, not necessarily the lack of people clearing savage (which as someone mentioned, is limited to 1-2 groups per realm on average).

My group is me and 7 other casual-to-midcore raiders. We grouped together with the intention of making a fairly lax approach to raiding with only three 3-hour raid days per week. Not a lot of time to raid, and certainly not enough time for retention when it comes to learning point-specific mecahnics. Having something like "people being more willing to teach" does not resolve the problem that we don't exactly have the people to teach in the first place. And this is applicable to most of the realms that have a relatively weak population (IE, not greg)

^ There you have it.

I would love to make a new static with casual and midcore. hardcores are free to join, as long as they don't RQ and willing to teach if needs to.

For me, this is the first time I stick to a game for more than a year. I'm in for the fun, my GF now joins me and she's having fun.

She loves challenges, so I can't wait to have more fun! ^^ FCoB, here we go!

[Velhart]

The best for the game would be to have 3 difficulties, but as they said SE isn't willing to increase their team size. Statistically the best option is to keep Normal and create a Hard mode while removing Savage as that caters to less than 5% of the player base. The vocal minority will cause a shitstorm on here, but after a bit everything would return to normal.

A 3rd option is having both Normal and Hard come out in 3.2, and then Savage in 3.25 or 3.3.

95% of the game is catered to casuals. Why can't raids just be hard and then an even harder mode than that? You are basically saying there should be no hardcore content.

[DragonSlayer45]

Let me get this straight: They make Alexander Savage, make the gear and DPS requirements astronomically high (at least for A3S and A4S) that realistically, only 5% of the player base will be able to surpass it. Then they turn around and are surprised the clear numbers are lower than they had anticipated.

I don't even know how to react to this.

How about they chuck Savage out the window, keep Alexander story mode, and make a raid that will appease both midcore and hardcore players. Don't even need 3 difficulties. Honestly, I feel like there was nothing wrong with how Coil did things. It just needed a story mode for people who couldn't dedicate the time to a static.

[zosia]

95% of the game is catered to casuals. Why can't raids just be hard and then an even harder mode than that? You are basically saying there should be no hardcore content.

Just a rough breakdown:

Savage Mode: savage, in it's current iteration, caters to less than 1% of the player base.
Hard Mode: Coil appealed to about 10% of the player base.
Easy Mode: alex normal, half of the active players have cleared it.

Obviously, it's an ideal situation to have all three, but if I am forced to pick two, I will go for Hard and Easy modes since it covers the largest % of the player base.

[Gurpsmeister]

In my opinion this is bad. I feel like the development team isn't quite sure what they want to do with endgame. Crank dps req, but take dps away from 2 dps classes. Call them support but rarely are their support skills needed. That's just one example, making tanks and healers have to consider their dps, etc etc.

Honestly just the way they work their boss fights are laughable. It's all enrage lawl dps harder worth no fun or memorable mechanics to work with.

[Velhart]

snip

Or put less strain on the development team and just make Normal(FCoB level) > Savage. Just put echo buff on the normal content and make adjustments when it starts becoming outdated. The way SCoB did it is exactly how developers should approach it, except you know, put good gear in Savage. Yoshi-P said they do not have the man power currently to do three modes, so the obvious choice needs to be what I just said.

Just a rough breakdown:

Savage Mode: savage, in it's current iteration, caters to less than 1% of the player base.
Hard Mode: Coil appealed to about 10% of the player base.
Easy Mode: alex normal, half of the active players have cleared it.

Obviously, it's an ideal situation to have all three, but if I am forced to pick two, I will go for Hard and Easy modes since it covers the largest % of the player base.

This is an example if thinking quantity over quality. Just because you made it more accessible and easier does not mean its good for the overall picture.

[RiceisNice]

Should just scrap normal and adjust savage to coil difficulty.

Not because I hate casuals or something, but the point of normal was supposed to be to let everyone experience the story and the story this time around is garbage, so normal doesn't serve much of a purpose.

Honestly, normal mode can accomplish just this given time and overgearing, if you take a look at the format of Coil. What savage intended (at least what I hoped they intended it to be) to be was that it's supposed to be hard, which doesn't necessarily tickle everyone's fancy. The problem that comes from nerfing savage mode is that it defeats the whole purpose of it's premise (it's supposed to be hard)

Just a rough breakdown:

Savage Mode: savage, in it's current iteration, caters to less than 1% of the player base.
Hard Mode: Coil appealed to about 10% of the player base.
Easy Mode: alex normal, half of the active players have cleared it.

Obviously, it's an ideal situation to have all three, but if I am forced to pick two, I will go for Hard and Easy modes since it covers the largest % of the player base.

I wouldn't consider coil to be the "hard" mode once echo was add, and especially when you start getting gear from outside of coil (such as WoD and archmagus weekly). Coil itself becomes easier as time passes (with the exception of SCoB, where it had to be mechanically changed to be DF-able). I mean even if it's "clearable by the majority", said majority probably aren't playing the game anymore because savage does not appeal to them due to the lack of scaling difficulty.

[Zenji]

It's not the difficulty of it that's the problem. The problem is why would players be motivated to do it when the content was already completed in Alex normal. It doesn't make sense. For the weapon. For what? To be over powered in casual content for a couple months until the next raid? Not worth it. Not to mention animus weapons will probably be BIS anyway .