JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[dank1]

Lets be real here, NA players aren't against public shaming. I've seen it done on here and on reddit for less than deserving things. (like not having swiftcast or low parses)

It's still hilarious how all the people who were preaching "japan servers r best care bears they will luv me evn if i do bad!!" Suddenly took a step back when the public forum shaming thing was brought up, the tone changed real quick lol

[Starbirth]

The black list isn't mandatory for others to follow, its suggestive, and I don't consider telling others when individuals are dishonest, abusive, or rude to be "public shaming" at all. The japan suicide thing is a little distasteful, off point, off topic, and kinda racist tbh. I'm not sure why it's relevant to the convo. I promise you people aren't killing themselves over not being able to get alex savage PF's...

My point is that it doesn't work. If you had a community blacklist the community would dwindle from a number of reasons caused by it. You also took what I said completely out of context; I was making a real life correlation on how public shaming does not work from any sort of societal standpoint and i'll leave it at that ok PC bro.

[Atoli]

I'm also gonna say that the anti parser sentiment also applies to this. A third party parser will probably still be more detailed and analyzable than whatever SE can provide but people's resistance towards it just shows that they would rather see everyone's time wasted than be hold accountable when it's shown that they can't be bothered to try.

My main concern with parsers actually is rooted in the horrible NA community. If all of this side of the community was respectful and ready to help if the numbers don't add up, I'd be all for public parsers.
The thing is - that is NOT how this community acts. So far I've ONLY seen parsers used for people to stroke their ego or to hightail out of content as soon as they saw someone wasn't living up to their expectations right away. So no, I don't think linking this topic to the parser debate is adequate..

...oh dammit, everyone did.
Well then...in my experience, most people are very willing to learn. I call other players out on things they do wrong all the time (and also praise them when they do exceptionally good, btw), about every second run I'm in.
If it's something that keeps us from clearing, I do it right away, if it's not, I wait til the end and then ask them to wait for a second while the others leave. When only me and the problematic player are left, I explain in detail what went wrong and how it could be done better. In my experience, about 9/10 players are very receptive to advice if given in this form that does NOT involve talking from a high horse or public shaming in front of the other 2-6 players.
Of course I've also encountered bad players who got insulted or even knew they were bad and were fine with that, but that was an underwhelming number in comparison. I think most people who had a bad experience which kept them from trying to help others improve just have a WAY TOO SMALL sample size to adequately judge.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe NA datacenters actually are like that (after all, I still have to encounter the infamous ice mage and the like on the EU datacenter..). But I've met plenty of people who got defensive at first ("That's how I've always played in WoW!" or "I have X classes on 60, I know what I'm doing!") but if you talk to them friendly and patiently, I have yet to encounter anyone who is actually not willing to improve. I think the main reason why people block out any advice is because it's often given in a really rude, "I'm superior, so bow before me you filthy commoner!"-way.

Yes, you can feel great for a minute saying someone sucks and booting them from the party. But in the end, the one who has to search for a replacement is you. The one who will keep encountering sucky players who just don't know better, is also you. The one who has to deal with a 30 min lockout if you left because someone sucked is you.
But if you had just spent 1 minute improving someone else's play, you would have gotten so much more out of it. The good feeling of helping someone else, the ability to clear whatever content you just were in and - in tiny tiny steps - a general improvement of the whole community which means the rate of bad players is going down, even if it's by a marginal amount.

Edit:
Just to clarify - I'm not for being accepting of constantly failing players. I think how you deal with them is up to you. But that's for AFTER you found out if they maybe just have wrong information/no experience/unfitting mindsets they brought over from other games/etc.

[Gardes]

Some people might not know that their dps is bad cause the only means of checking that is considered a TOS violation.

Not to mention that people wont exactly explain to the person why they decide to kick them out so in the end they are left in the dark wondering what just happened and not knowing that their performance was not up to par.

And whose fault is that, I wonder? How did we get to being disallowed to gauge and criticize someone's basic ability to fight and yet somehow people being unable to learn specific fights is the problem? Is the demand basically making capable players take in every single player that comes along and then let them 'learn' a specific fight when a lot of the players don't even have the basics down?

Suppose I start doing this and a guy comes into my learning party and we couldn't progress because he doesn't have the dps. If I tell him his dps is low, I risk getting banned. I don't tell him, we get stuck in limbo. If I don't tell him and disband with other excuses, I'm basically passing the buck to other people in the same position as me. They will get this guy in their party and they will get stuck again and cannot do anything about it.

It doesn't even matter if said player knows his dps is low or not or whether he's doing it intentionally or not. What matters is that if the NA community wants to start more learning pfs for specific fights, they're gonna have to deal with every single one of these without being able to sift for people who actually care about their game and get to the rest later when they actually realize they have to learn their own class if they want to join in. But no, let's fight hard here so you dont have to try harder in game and let's fight hard to keep content nerfed so you have to try even less.

[Fevelle]

I was lurking and reading. This discussion made me remember: is the training grounds coming on 3.1?

[Starbirth]

snip

I really have to agree that the TOS violation for 3rd party software hurts more than it mends. Whatever it's supposed to mend anyway.

[RiceisNice]

I really have to agree that the TOS violation for 3rd party software hurts more than it mends. Whatever it's supposed to mend anyway.

It's mostly a blanket statement that covers other softwares that include botting or hacking. The best alleivation for this is having a game feature that does exactly just that and is sanction by SE (considering they have their own means of checking class DPS)

[Archaell]

My main concern with parsers actually is rooted in the horrible NA community. If all of this side of the community was respectful and ready to help if the numbers don't add up, I'd be all for public parsers.
The thing is - that is NOT how this community acts. So far I've ONLY seen parsers used for people to stroke their ego or to hightail out of content as soon as they saw someone wasn't living up to their expectations right away. So no, I don't think linking this topic to the parser debate is adequate...

Actually this topic is more related to parser than you might think.

It is easy to believe that better players are the evil ones for bailing out or booting underperforming players out of groups. Right now SE doesn't allow you to talk about parsers so you might get into trouble for trying to help somebody who does not want to be helped and who just expects you to shut up and carry them to their rewards. No wonder many players opt out from even trying as it can create more harm than good.

These "anti-elitist" discussions always face the same problem. We look at the top players who behave in a bad way, we want them to be nice to less skilled players, but we also ignore the bottom players who behave in a bad way and actually are the reason why the top is less supportive.

[Malevicton]

Lets be real here, NA players aren't against public shaming. I've seen it done on here and on reddit for less than deserving things. (like not having swiftcast or low parses)

It's not really public shaming if you black out the name though :P

Which is required both here and on reddit

[Azazua_azura]

@ animarelic
I have 10 years mmo experience, played 31 mmo from pay to pay as well as free to play. I have a fresh account due to needing a new psn ID I have had 75 character in ff11, 20 character in ff14. I also said I'm a SLIGHT fan. As in, i played a few games and enjoy them I played ff11 and 14 because they was console based mmo not because the final fantasy name. I also have 27 years gaming experience. The thing is you just proved my point right you are trying to dick measure, and I'm not.

Not once in ff11 was i felt forced to do endgame which is what you tried to claim. You also claimed that its the console ff fans fault for not knowing how to play in groups, whixch ff11 was very group centric mmo like wow was not.

So instead of the dick measuring and blacket assumption about about back them up?

Also to be clear, My previous account had 2 character who had level 60 jobs, I never got a chance to do coil, but id like to do Alex savaage.