If you could kill off one of the scions...

[Delily]

I don't know why people dislike Minfilia so. I have liked her since we first met back in version 1. Same with all the Scions, minus Papalymo cause, well, he's a condescending jerk.

Now those little twin brats, they really need to go. And if you want to oust Min for bad leadership why on earth would you want to put Alphinaud in charge in her stead. He was by far a larger fail than any other leader. Min had loyalty among her people at least. Alphinaud basically organized the traitors. I just cannot stand the kid. I don't even want to hear his voice in cs. Just makes me want to punch the screen when he's on it.

Calling Alphinaud a failure is stretch. He may have been blindsided by delusions of grandeur, but he still not had an idea, he also executed on it. Even more so, he did have the loyalty of several members of the CB. Furthermore, he was a pivotal character in defeating Nidhogg and Thordan. Wasn't he the one who suggested Ysayle and Est work together? He may not be perfect, but the kid gets stuff done. His sister is just as important, although her role is limited to Coil. Alphinaud is basically us, since the WoL is the silent hero.

Minifilia had the loyalty, but all she did was tell you what to do and get kidnapped.

[Odds_Ends]

Minifilia is like peach

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Peach is far more useless

[Cilia]

Its worth remembering the first clue that lead us to a method of killing Ascians was her discovery in 2.2. Urianger built off what she had observed and figured out on the nature of Ascian souls from watching the Sahagin Elder who had the Echo.

Even if we ignore the unglamorous management role she played its not exactly accurate to say she has done nothing. And she as only needed rescuing twice which is only one more than most of the other Scions.

... because that observation couldn't have been made by anyone else who knows about the Echo and the Ascians, right?

I think a lot of the Western fanbase dislikes Minfilia because she doesn't appear to do anything. The only time she leaves the Solar is when she's forced to or for diplomatic matters; the only time she leaves the Solar of her own volition and actually is in a position to get her hands dirty she hides behind Merlwyb the whole time. I don't mind if people want to say she's being a manager, but show her managerial skills actually make a difference, versus "Come back to the Waking Sands / Rising Stones" and then just have her dispatch us to deal with the latest primal. The threat is self-evident - we should not need the go-ahead to deal with it.

Hell, I don't even consider her a wholly competent manager, since even if you want to place the blame for the Crystal Braves solely on Alphinaud Thancred still got possessed under her watch, partially thanks to overworking himself. As manager, it should have been Minfilia's duty to make sure he wasn't working himself to exhaustion. It almost led to untold destruction and the conquest of Eorzea.

"But we're really busy, and there's not enough people..."

That's no excuse. Being the manager (leader) means making the hard choices and sometimes making sacrifices, up to and including sidelining your best agents so they don't break down from stress, consequences be damned.

I don't fault her for being captured and needing rescuing; the first time was basically a hostage situation and would have led to even more death had she not complied, and the second was a friggin' Ascian. I don't fault her for being a noncombatant; even though Tataru never fights, she was very helpful in 3.0 (before then I was kinda meh about her). I fault Minfilia for appearing to do next to nothing, while the camera is on her for a long portion of 2.x so she can bark orders and deliver exposition.

And, for the umpteenth time, I do not want any of the Scions to die. I just do not see Minfilia's purpose beyond fanservice, and being physically attractive does not excuse her having the personality of a paper bag and the combat skills to match.

[Anyan]

As a huge Thancred fan... yada yada yada

It doesn't matter for what reason, or even if it's justified, it doesn't change the fact that he is angsty. I think you just managed to describe an angsty character perfectly. I think he's boring and gross. Sorry if that makes you sad or something.

Also (yeah sorry this is a wiki quote but it's just too much effort):
"Mary Sue" today has changed from its original meaning and now carries a generalized, although not universal, connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion. True self-insertion is a literal and generally undisguised representation of the author; most characters described as "Mary Sues" are not, though they are often called "proxies"[6] for the author. The negative connotation comes from this "wish-fulfillment" implication: the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting.

Bella from Twilight comes to mind. And please, don't tell me what to do.

[Belhi]

... because that observation couldn't have been made by anyone else who knows about the Echo and the Ascians, right?

I think a lot of the Western fanbase dislikes Minfilia because she doesn't appear to do anything. The only time she leaves the Solar is when she's forced to or for diplomatic matters; the only time she leaves the Solar of her own volition and actually is in a position to get her hands dirty she hides behind Merlwyb the whole time. I don't mind if people want to say she's being a manager, but show her managerial skills actually make a difference, versus "Come back to the Waking Sands / Rising Stones" and then just have her dispatch us to deal with the latest primal. The threat is self-evident - we should not need the go-ahead to deal with it.

Hell, I don't even consider her a wholly competent manager, since even if you want to place the blame for the Crystal Braves solely on Alphinaud Thancred still got possessed under her watch, partially thanks to overworking himself. As manager, it should have been Minfilia's duty to make sure he wasn't working himself to exhaustion. It almost led to untold destruction and the conquest of Eorzea.

"But we're really busy, and there's not enough people..."

That's no excuse. Being the manager (leader) means making the hard choices and sometimes making sacrifices, up to and including sidelining your best agents so they don't break down from stress, consequences be damned.

I don't fault her for being captured and needing rescuing; the first time was basically a hostage situation and would have led to even more death had she not complied, and the second was a friggin' Ascian. I don't fault her for being a noncombatant; even though Tataru never fights, she was very helpful in 3.0 (before then I was kinda meh about her). I fault Minfilia for appearing to do next to nothing, while the camera is on her for a long portion of 2.x so she can bark orders and deliver exposition.

And, for the umpteenth time, I do not want any of the Scions to die. I just do not see Minfilia's purpose beyond fanservice, and being physically attractive does not excuse her having the personality of a paper bag and the combat skills to match.

I'm not saying that reasons Minfilia is unpopular are invalid. I'm merely pointing out that a lot of the justifications are rather inaccurate or unfair. She isn't useless. She is boring. Its like Dave in accounting. You don't see what he is doing and when you do see obvious results of his work it's when things go wrong and the rest of the time he never really seems to do much that you can see.

I have no issue with people not liking Minfilia. I think there are many valid reasons why she is unpopular. I'm just neurotically inclined to argue if I think their justication for it is inaccurate. :P

Minfilia isn't a favourite character of mine. I just think her background gives her really exciting potential to shine as something that isn't a scholar or a soldier. We have heaps of scholars and soldiers. A character who's strengths lie in resourcefulness and misdirection combined with excellent planning skills has some really interesting possibility for story development. The other Scions generally don't fall into that category.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

OOGA BOOGA

Nailed right there. I think a lot of people who dislike Minfilia is due to her not doing anything active or flashy like everyone else. She's just a glorified paper pusher and people don't like to see that, but I also think it's unfair to blame her failings and kidnappings purely on that alone. Everyone loves to compare her to Princess Peach because the two get kidnapped. Unlike Peach, Minfilia is only kidnapped twice and both times she refused to give her captors what they wanted, even if it meant she'd be killed for it. Peach is just an objective character to give the player motivation for playing the game and has no character beyond that unless you play the RPG spin offs where Peach has more character to her.

[Odds_Ends]

Peach is far more useless

True, but I meant that they both gets kidnapped a lot.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

2 times VS 2 decades worth of kidnapping? Ok.

[Belhi]

It's worth pointing out our character has been taken prisoner at least twice too...

First time we face Ifrit and at the end of 2.55. While the first time we actually free ourselves it was more due to our enemies not knowing we had the echo and the second time we did get rescued.