Bard - they broke my job

[Dante_V]

I do not believe that BRD/MCH is balanced around not having the piercing debuff. Without it we are actually below an equally geared/skilled off tank WAR for single target DPS. BRD/MCH DPS is most certainly balanced around having a piercing debuff.

Comparing war to bard is disingenuous and on top of this top end bard range for high skill players is almost 200 dps higher than top end warriors. Even without disembowel a good bard will out dps a good warrior or at least be on par with them. You are also loading the comparison in using an absolutely OP dps tank against a Utility DPS. If you were getting beat out by pallys and drks you'd maybe have a more relevant argument but considering the average output of players in this game, a good war can out dps 90% of the current dps player base.

[RiceisNice]

Comparing war to bard is disingenuous and on top of this top end bard range for high skill players is almost 200 dps higher than top end warriors. Even without disembowel a good bard will out dps a good warrior or at least be on par with them. You are also loading the comparison in using an absolutely OP dps tank against a Utility DPS. If you were getting beat out by pallys and drks you'd maybe have a more relevant argument but considering the average output of players in this game, a good war can out dps 90% of the current dps player base.

I do not believe that BRD/MCH is balanced around not having the piercing debuff. Without it we are actually below an equally geared/skilled off tank WAR for single target DPS. BRD/MCH DPS is most certainly balanced around having a piercing debuff.

None of this is really relevant to the glaring problems with bard to be honest, and it's a different can of worms ("Support tax" as some people have called it). It's also semantics at this point if we're debating whether or not disembowel/foe should be included as part of their dps (because honestly speaking, BRD doing "110%" of their damage is still less than a DRG or casters who does 100%. The numers are one thing (and for the most part, I don't really mind it, I still question the reasoning but meh), functionality is another.

[RinchanNau]

Comparing war to bard is disingenuous and on top of this top end bard range for high skill players is almost 200 dps higher than top end warriors. Even without disembowel a good bard will out dps a good warrior or at least be on par with them. You are also loading the comparison in using an absolutely OP dps tank against a Utility DPS. If you were getting beat out by pallys and drks you'd maybe have a more relevant argument but considering the average output of players in this game, a good war can out dps 90% of the current dps player base.

I said single target off tank WAR with equal gear/skill. This is not disingenuous at all. On a dummy a WAR will out DPS an equally geared BRD. It's a bit ridiculous.

This obviously can change in actual encounters where the WAR may need to use Defiance and/or disconnect a bit for mechanics. But I think the fact that WAR is already ahead in a dummy encounter is absurd. WAR is considered a tank. They, as a tank job, should not be able to out DPS an equally geared/skilled DPS.

You can argue for BRD's utility. For the increase that Foe brings to caster/healer DPS. But let us not forget how Storm's Eye will increase the other tank and NIN DPS.