Bard - they broke my job

[AxelDH]

I'm enjoying how Bards play now, possibly more than I did pre-minuet. Although, maybe that's because I've been barding so long, it was just nice to have a change! Anyway, I really don't think Bards need an overhaul, but agree with a few of the QoL points brought up, and think that Wardens Paean could be made a little better.

One thing that would be nice, is if more classes than just DRG could apply the Piercing Resist Down debuff! It hurts a Bard/Machinists DPS a lot by not bringing one along.

Magic Attack Down can be applied by MNK & DRK, and Slashing Resist Down can be applied by NIN & WAR... but only DRG can apply Piercing down!

PLD would be the most logical choice I think, although they wouldn't benefit from it themselves. It would make a PLD/MNK combo be able to match a DRK/DRG in terms of team support.

[Warlyx]

I'm enjoying how Bards play now, possibly more than I did pre-minuet. Although, maybe that's because I've been barding so long, it was just nice to have a change! Anyway, I really don't think Bards need an overhaul, but agree with a few of the QoL points brought up, and think that Wardens Paean could be made a little better.

One thing that would be nice, is if more classes than just DRG could apply the Piercing Resist Down debuff! It hurts a Bard/Machinists DPS a lot by not bringing one along.

Magic Attack Down can be applied by MNK & DRK, and Slashing Resist Down can be applied by NIN & WAR... but only DRG can apply Piercing down!

PLD would be the most logical choice I think, although they wouldn't benefit from it themselves. It would make a PLD/MNK combo be able to match a DRK/DRG in terms of team support.

or give it to brd/mch already and be done with it.

[RussW]

or give it to brd/mch already and be done with it.

Too logical. lol

[Duelle]

BRD and BLM is not complex... the devs failed to implement the new skills correctly. Adding a cast time to a heavy proc class like brd was a big mistake and made it feel clunky. WM makes a bard look retarded when changing up animations in mid combat especially when you clip oGCD's after GCD's. BRD atm needs a lot of work. It's way to easy to cancel out of GCD's bc you either slightly moved or popping a oGCD at the wrong time. BRD was designed from the floor up to be a high proc mobile damage dealer that occasionally sings a song to lift the hopes and dreams of a blm to drop the biggest nukes they can. As it stands now BRD has lost all that it was in 2.0 and they didn't even gain a dps boost from WM. BRD is still in the same place as they were in 2.0 except they are now a bow mage with retarded looking animations.

Quoted for emphasis.

As far as BLM is concerned Adding a timer to enochian was not a good idea for several reasons...

don't get me wrong its a great idea on paper but it was poorly implemented. On single player game it would have worked out great but on a mmo where there is 1000's of people on the servers at any given will cause to many headaches with this type of battle design... just wait when even more people are subbing up.

Personally, the whole mechanic was wasted on BLM. You could have built a brand new job with that as its core mechanic and would have seen nothing but gains.

For example, BLU could have been built around the Enochian mechanic as a way to buff its own damage by forcing the BLU to constantly cast blue magic to keep the effect going (since monster correlations were a thing in FFXI, use that to set up BLU spell combos that would thus elongate Enochian's duration). DRK could have also been built around that mechanic by having Darkside work like it (activate darkside, use actions to perpetuated the effect).

[RiceisNice]

Personally, the whole mechanic was wasted on BLM. You could have built a brand new job with that as its core mechanic and would have seen nothing but gains.

You're still going to need to find something to add to BLM to evolve/differentiate their gameplay from 2.0. Not to mention slapping enochian as it to BLU would make them play similar to BLM with that in mind, but if you were to take astral/umbral out of the equation, then the concept of enochian isn't even there and it just becomes akin to heavy thrust or hot shot.

As for DRK, they already do this through dork arts to augment certain weaponskills, and they're encouraged to keep darkside active anyway for the damage boost by maintaining their mana.

[Duelle]

You're still going to need to find something to add to BLM to evolve/differentiate their gameplay from 2.0.

The bulk of the changes made for HW could have been tied to Leylines. Maybe implement a proc system for Fire IV and Blizzard IV.

Not to mention slapping enochian as it to BLU would make them play similar to BLM with that in mind, but if you were to take astral/umbral out of the equation, then the concept of enochian isn't even there and it just becomes akin to heavy thrust or hot shot.

The idea I originally had was that the effect could only be elongated if you performed "proper" spell combos using beast correlations (Blue Magic would have to be assigned beast affinities to create such a system). And rather than get it out of the blue (pun intended) at lv56, you'd either start out with it or get it very early level-wise as a way of saying "you know how BLM has astral/umbral and SMN has aetherflow stacks? This is your mechanic (one of my old BLU drafts had it coming in at lv4).

As for DRK, they already do this through dork arts to augment certain weaponskills, and they're encouraged to keep darkside active anyway for the damage boost by maintaining their mana.

Clicking darkside is very different from, say, having to finish a Power Slash combo to trigger darkside. It would result in different gameplay, for one. Its effects on the rest of the ability list would also be different.

[AxelDH]

or give it to brd/mch already and be done with it.

Well, its an option... but I don't think it would be as good that way.

You would need to give the ability to both Bards and Machinists, for the sake of balance. And as you're always going to have either a Bard or Machinist, this would render one of the Dragoons selling points largely useless!

On the other hand, you aren't always going to have a Paladin, but they might become a little more desirable for groups that happen to have no Dragoon.

[RiceisNice]

The bulk of the changes made for HW could have been tied to Leylines. Maybe implement a proc system for Fire IV and Blizzard IV.

Procs don't work with cast bars is the thing. Espesically if the cast is the same/longer than the GCD, you'd still have the same problem with firestarter, and it only gets more exasperated when BLM's damage is even more contingent on it. And even then, we don't really want three jobs filling the niches of (trying to) being reactive to their procs on a regular basis now do we? That's a reason why I like enochian since it does away with an existing mechanic that doesn't quite work with BLM while still acting as a bonus (since you don't consecutively cast fire I anymore during enochian, and it allows you to fit a third IV before refreshing astral). It also doesn't make much difference if you tie the effects of enochian to ley lines or not (other than the fact that the BLM is certainly confined to that circle now), espesically if they are still going to utilize the same mechanics of astral/umbral and refreshing.

The idea I originally had was that the effect could only be elongated if you performed "proper" spell combos using beast correlations (Blue Magic would have to be assigned beast affinities to create such a system). And rather than get it out of the blue (pun intended) at lv56, you'd either start out with it or get it very early level-wise as a way of saying "you know how BLM has astral/umbral and SMN has aetherflow stacks? This is your mechanic (one of my old BLU drafts had it coming in at lv4).

The concept of having a job change later on is fine, provided it works with the job. In the case of enochian, it's practically build around still managing astral/umbral since the IVs do not grant the buff, while at the same time they are required to be in the buff to be used. You need to put something that'll make them feel as if they've gained a new tool kit that makes them stronger, more versatile, or really just better than their 2.0 counterpart. BRD and MCH fail in this regard since the former does not work with their 2.0 skills, while both begin to play extremely similiar to each other because both that skill and their overall gameplay are inherently similiar to each other (or functionally the same in the case of WM/GB). You don't want new jobs to be homogenized in mechanics and gameplay, which is why thought needs to be put into the jobs so playinga MCH or BLU does not feel like you're playing a reskinned or "working better" BRD/BLM (the latter being the case if you were to say, take enochian mechanics from BLM, make a few QoL changes like making it less stingy on the cast timers, and hand it to BLU)

Clicking darkside is very different from, say, having to finish a Power Slash combo to trigger darkside. It would result in different gameplay, for one. Its effects on the rest of the ability list would also be different.

But you mentioned that you still want to have the concept of perpetually having dork side active, which you already have to do by using specific abilities (siphon strike, blood price, or even blood weapon without grit). Excess mana gets used up for dork arts, and quite frankly the concept of their mana management is fine, unique to the job, and they are built around utilizing it properly. Otherwise you're looking at having another BotD without the 4th combo hits and disregarding the mana concept if it's purely on duration.

[Warlyx]

Well, its an option... but I don't think it would be as good that way.

You would need to give the ability to both Bards and Machinists, for the sake of balance. And as you're always going to have either a Bard or Machinist, this would render one of the Dragoons selling points largely useless!

On the other hand, you aren't always going to have a Paladin, but they might become a little more desirable for groups that happen to have no Dragoon.

all the dps can debuff their own dmg weapon type but bard (now mch too) is a bit unfair dont u think? , for the sake of balance i give Warden Paean for it , where i sign?

even PLD having piercing debuff wont make it desirable enough in the current meta.... p giving it a bottle of water when is starving is nice, but doesnt fix the issue at hand.

[RiceisNice]

all the dps can debuff their own dmg weapon type but bard (now mch too) is a bit unfair dont u think? , for the sake of balance i give Warden Paean for it , where i sign?

even PLD having piercing debuff wont make it desirable enough in the current meta.... p giving it a bottle of water when is starving is nice, but doesnt fix the issue at hand.

Actually, water is much more valuable than food in that scenario, not even joking since you can go for up to a week without food, compared to water you're not making it past 48 hours.

DRG as a standalone job is incredibly powerful as it is, the piercing debuff practically guarantees their spot (since you have to have a bRd or MCH for progression) in the meta. If it's not exclusive to them (and I don't mean take it away, because that means their overall dps takes a nose dive), it would somewhat increase the feasibility of ninja too (trick attack versus battle lianity)