Why do people want trash?

[RiceisNice]

Meaningful progression within the instance, relevant trash mobs, heck even things that may impact the fight. I mentioned it eariler, the "raid" instances, specifically Alexander are objectively smaller than what you see in even 4 man dungeons or coil. You don't see that much of the environment because it's mostly enclosed, and it does not capture the feeling of actually being inside Alexander as much as it is being inside someone's basement. The Coils pulled it off much better with some exploration mixed in with some of the turns (albeit with useless trash mobs), but it felt somewhat like a raid compared to what we have now in Savage (or even just Alexander normal). It, on top of both umrememberable (for good reasons mind you) bosses and poor story-telling for Alexander, it creates for a very shallow "raid" experience, even if you don't compare it to coil.

The entire CT series is more of a "raid" in the sense of design with engaging trash mobs and exploration, only it's tuned for 24 man.

[Elky]

I personally enjoy massacring large groups of trash mobs. Pull everything in one go and blow em' up!

[Morningstar1337]

Im all for eliminating trash from most dungeons and leaving only bosses/mini bosses. If i wanted to faceroll trash mobs, id go do fates.

And let me guess, if everyone else wnated to make gil for some reason, you'd tell them to take up crafting/gathering instead of dungeons? Then again that would keep the gil sellers out

[Millerna]

@Gunspec

I see your Oscar and raise you an Agnes, the junk lady.



This discussion reminds me so much of that scene.

"It's all junk!"
"What about this? This is not junk."

Quick somebody grab a lala and toss it in the air so we can start a sing-along!

You like to remind me of the game.
What game?
The game referenced by the ex-WoWer.
What WoWer?
The one that wants their way for you too.
Who do?
You do.
What?
Remind me of the game.

Yes, I know I'm a dork and my mind goes to strange places, but at least I have fun with it

Dork or not ... Labyrinth ftw

[Etiken]

...is actually the other way around. This is not a WoW themepark, this a Final Fantasy themepark. Go play WoW if you want to kill only bosses.

The way they have it setup right now is perfect. We don't need anything more. If you honestly think that WoW allows you to kill only bosses... you are VERY wrong. The amount of time wasted on trash in WoW is absolutely sickening. I enjoy the raid content in this game because I don't have to deal with that crap.

Let me ask you something, this is an honest question. Do you truly enjoy killing 10-15 minutes worth of trash in nevereap and fractal multiple times a week for your esoterics?

You probably get some esoterics from other places as well but lets just assume you don't and you run roulette 6 times a week for your eso cap. That's 60-90 minutes of doing nothing but clearing trash. There is ZERO challenge in doing that. Now don't get me wrong... I'm not advocating for them to pull trash from everything. We wouldn't have anything to do if that were the case lol. However, when it comes to savage content, if a group only meets 4 hours each week to work progression, it would be kind of horrible if you had to spend 30-60 minutes clearing trash each time you went in...

Let me make myself perfectly clear. We all want cool new stuff to do and enjoy in the game, I get that. However beating your head against 30 minutes worth of trash every time you enter a raid is completely pointless. If you want to get all giddy on lore and all that, you've got 30+ hours of cutscenes to enjoy.

Keep Savage clean!!!

[Fevelle]

@Etiken I really don't know anything about World of Warcraft and to be honest I don't have any interest. I just used it because of the "go play WOW" thing.

I can't say I find it fun to do Expert nowadays because having only 2 dungeons to do is boring, but let's change this question to the High level roulette: yes, I do have fun. Probably the most fun I'll have in my farming schedule. I get to see a different dungeon everyday, that I don't always run, like Pharos Sirius or Lost City of Amdapor, where the mobs makes you feel like you're actually exploring an inhospitable place, leading you to the boss.

That's a feeling I had when I played every single offline numbered title of the series, and it's the most rewarding experience for me in an RPG. The same applies to Raids - like Crystal Tower and Void Ark - they feel alive with the trash mobs. This is exactly what a Final Fantasy experience should feel like, not some generic "kill boss and get rewards" type of content.

I agree that the mobs need some reworking, like chain loot and a smarter AI, but they are a important part of the FF feeling (something that is slowly being drained from this game while trying to appeal to migrating players from other games).

[LaurelinKementari]

The argument that, if people want to kill trash they should just go do FATEs, could easily be turned around. If people just want to fight a boss and nothing else, they could go do Trials. That's what Trials are. Just a boss. If a raid is just a boss, too, then what difference is there between that and Trials? Difficulty? Trials have that too, just slap "Extreme" at the end of it and A4 would be indistinguishable from a Trial. Applying the term "raid" to Alexander makes the term "raid" itself utterly hollow and without meaning. Binding Coil somewhat managed to dodge this bullet by providing a sense of immense scope to its environments. But Alexander? What, exactly, makes Alexander a raid and not a Trial?

[Mycow8me]

I actually do prefer trials over dungeons for that reason so... yeah... actually am doing them. They are just more fun imho then dragging through a dungeon for anything other than exp.

[Etiken]

You got your trash in Alex NM. You cleared it and now you get to work on the hard stuff.

Is the fact that they call it a raid instead of a trial really disturb you guys that much? Is that what is causing your brains to freeze up? If that's the case then sure, get rid of all savage raids under the raid tab and stick em in the trial tab. Would the satisfy you? Honestly, I'm truly curious.

[Colorful]

snip

I'm just wondering what they're justification is for not making Alexander normal just one big instance is. It takes less than 40-60 minutes to clear, it's easier than CT due to the lack of 10+ players who have no idea what to do so it would fit quite nicely into the 120 minute time frame. What's their reasoning for that? I know it would make Alexander normal infinitely more raid-like and enjoyable to me, although they would have to add 1-2 more mini bosses and 20 seconds of trash before A4. You'd be saving time on queues in the end, and it would all feel like one nice and long raid relatively speaking.