"This is my playstyle" is a poor argument for being bad.

[Jamein]

Is this thread really then about a very small minority of players who play to their own tune? Perhaps I'm just extraordinarily lucky, but I've only run into a handful (maybe 2?) of people who are there to do their own thing. Most people seem to try and make some effort at least. Their efforts may not result in anything spectacular, but they do what they can.

Honestly, if you are constantly running across people who "could and SHOULD be doing better, but just aren't", maybe the issue is with you and your expectations are set far too high for encounters with random people.

Go into Alex normal, turn on parser and check out what numbers people pull. Do this over and over and eventually you really start to see how BADLY some people are doing. People in FULL eso gear sometimes pull around 500-600 DPS (and I've had a number pulling 200-500 with eso weapons/gear which is absolutely unforgivable as this is auto attack damage), this is pre-heavensward numbers. This is either really bad play/lack of game knowledge or pure lazyness and basically means unless the rest of the DPS do above AVERAGE DPS, you aint clearing. So what it comes down too is there are a good percentage of players, who get carried. No one is asking these players to do 1k+ DPS outside of savage, but if you are constantly below average then you could, and should, do better because it only requires you to get a good grasp on the BASICS of your class.

I'm far from expecting too much from people, if the majority of the playerbase could pull an average amount I would be pretty happy but that is not the case, plenty don't even come close and underperform by a mile.

[AnaviAnael]

Snips for post limit.

Personally, when I've seen people be guilty of this it's always been the tank or healer who wants a fast queue. They have no desire to actually learn the job (i.e. Scholars who rely on the fairy to heal EVERYTHING, White Mages who refuse to use Esuna, Paladins not using flash or cooldowns, etc.) , they want to get in and out of roulette as quickly as possible. I'm sure, being a white mage, you've come across your fair share of tissue paper tanks lol.

[Odett]

No kidding. I did A4N yesterday for my weekly look and DPS was so slow that I got FIVE Discoids. Yes, we ended up clearing eventually because we had badass healers, but is it too much to expect from 4 DPS players with ilv200 weapons to not drag the fight that long that me as a tank and the healers have to deal with five discoids? You know something's up if you can take an ad by yourself with Grit in the second phase and kill it before the other ads that the DPS are supposed to be killing haven't even reached 60% HP yet.

[Veralidaine]

Might be of beneficial merit to note that not everyone devotes their lives to an MMO. Some people have real lives, they have work, they have kids. They have *GASP*... dunn dunn dunnnnnn.... other hobbies.

Some people just play just to have fun. They're not all into being the best of the best of the whatever. Which even if you are into that.. it's really kind of an enormous waste anyway. Because unless you're going 'pro' sometime soon.. you're really just jerking off while being an asshole about it.

So by your logic someone who is bad at the game is just wasting their time? You say people may have other hobbies, what if they pour a lot of their time into THOSE hobbies?

Just because someone puts a lot of time into something to be good at it doesn't mean it's a WASTE. Just because it's a video game doesn't mean it isn't their time to do as they see fit with it, and it definitely is not a waste to them. What are you good at? Did you put a lot of time into it? Is it a waste to you?

On another note, to some people "just playing to have fun" is being GOOD at this game. They get a good feeling from downing bosses, putting out good numbers, getting that loot. This issue is so grey in a lot of areas with people saying "well the elitists should make their own groups" or "well the bads should make their own groups", it can go either way.

All I ask in a group is to read their tooltips, put in effort. When I'm a level 55 BRD, grouped with a totally geared out 60 bard in say, the Aery, and I'm doing more damage than them? They either aren't putting in any effort or they haven't put in 5 minutes to reading their tooltips and figuring out a rotation for themselves. It really doesn't require a lot of research on the internet.

And if they're going to roleplay and pretend to be an ice mage, I'm going to say they SHOULD probably make their own groups, because an 80 minute dungeon should not be acceptable by anyone.

[Skivvy]

Go into Alex normal, turn on parser and check out what numbers people pull. Do this over and over and eventually you really start to see how BADLY some people are doing. People in FULL eso gear sometimes pull around 500-600 DPS (and I've had a number pulling 200-500 with eso weapons/gear which is absolutely unforgivable as this is auto attack damage), this is pre-heavensward numbers. This is either really bad play/lack of game knowledge or pure lazyness and basically means unless the rest of the DPS do above AVERAGE DPS, you aint clearing. So what it comes down too is there are a good percentage of players, who get carried. No one is asking these players to do 1k+ DPS outside of savage, but if you are constantly below average then you could, and should, do better because it only requires you to get a good grasp on the BASICS of your class.

I'm far from expecting too much from people, if the majority of the playerbase could pull an average amount I would be pretty happy but that is not the case, plenty don't even come close and underperform by a mile.

I know it can be incredibly frustrating to have players who don't perform well, but unless you know for a fact they are trolling or just being lazy, all you can really do it make the best of what you're given. And by that I mean either try and give them some basic pointers and push through, kick the member, or leave yourself.

As mentioned by myself and several others in the, there are a multitude of reasons why someone may not be up to snuff. Not going to get into the details, but every time someone makes a comment along those lines, we get told "You're missing the point of the thread! This is about people who blatantly play their job in a non-standard way and don't care about the party". Seems this thread is confused on what point it's trying to get across. And that's what my reply to Sir Darts was about

Personally, when I've seen people be guilty of this it's always been the tank or healer who wants a fast queue. They have no desire to actually learn the job (i.e. Scholars who rely on the fairy to heal EVERYTHING, White Mages who refuse to use Esuna, Paladins not using flash or cooldowns, etc.) , they want to get in and out of roulette as quickly as possible. I'm sure, being a white mage, you've come across your fair share of tissue paper tanks lol.

I actually ran into my first SCH this week who refused to do anything except let the fairy heal! I take it back, he did do SOMETHING - he was doing emotes and dancing the whole time. -.- Granted this was a low level dungeon, so the fairy was enough healing, but he made it very clear he would do nothing else. So I'm not saying these people don't exist, just that they seem to be pretty rare (thankfully!).

[Kallera]

As much as I appreciate getting people to play better, insulting randoms in df(because this does happen, never mind your prepared anecdote),telling people to uninstall the game, and intentionally killing players is just being an ass. And no one is forcing you to act that way.

[AnaviAnael]

I actually ran into my first SCH this week who refused to do anything except let the fairy heal! I take it back, he did do SOMETHING - he was doing emotes and dancing the whole time. -.- Granted this was a low level dungeon, so the fairy was enough healing, but he made it very clear he would do nothing else. So I'm not saying these people don't exist, just that they seem to be pretty rare (thankfully!).

Ugh, that's the worst! I had a scholar who tried to auto follow the tank through a Tam Tara run. Fortunately he got called out on his BS and tossed out some dots.

Like you said, thankfully this is rare. Still frustrating though. XD Most people actually do try.

[bounddreamer]

For the first time in a long time last night during EX my healer told me NOT to do the big pull leading up to the final Neverreap boss. Then he slapped the dragoon silly before we left. Turns out the dragoon was in mostly eso gear and putting out 400 dps. I was in Defiance for most of the run barring boss fights and I was out-dpsing the dragoon. I first suspected a problem when I heard the dragoon do heavy thrust twice in a row. -_-

Bad players waste everyone's time. If you're not going to do your best, don't sign up for a dungeon. Just go do leve quests or fates or something.

[Jamein]

I know it can be incredibly frustrating to have players who don't perform well, but unless you know for a fact they are trolling or just being lazy, all you can really do it make the best of what you're given. And by that I mean either try and give them some basic pointers and push through, kick the member, or leave yourself.

This happens more often than you might think, personally, I can pull high numbers so I don't really care if someone is below average as I can make up for it. However the point is this is not fair on the rest of the playerbase.

As mentioned by myself and several others in the, there are a multitude of reasons why someone may not be up to snuff.

Honestly there is no reason why someone can't understand the basics of their class. Outside of a mental handicap or even a physical one (I actually had a bard in my old FC who had spine issues and had to play in a very awkward way but that guy was one of the best Bards I have ever played with) you have no excuse to not learn the class you choose to play. This is an MMO not a solo game, people are meant to work together.

If you learn your class, and understand the fundamentals of the game/dungeons/raids (obviously new players are an exception), you're fine in my eyes. I'm not asking for anything more, however plenty of people who have been playing since release don't even bother with this. Lag is the only exception to all of this but I've had aussie players on NA servers/EU servers that perform fine, so my sympathy for that excuse is slim.

[Kallera]

"Not fair to the playerbase"?

The only real solutions to this, other than general non specific conplaints, are to bring about a culture of shaming others or witch hunting, neither which abide by the forum rules or ToS. Controlling how others play isn't much of an MMORPG either.