"This is my playstyle" is a poor argument for being bad.

[sirDarts]

*snip*

Read the thread please. The main complaint here is NOT about people who are mediocre, but trying. The main complaint is about people who couldn't give a damn. Be it "Netflix&Game" players, "Ice mages", "WM-less Bards", "GB-less Machinists", "Shield-less Gladiators", "Fairy-less Scholars", players with gear that's CLEARLY not suited for the given content, etc.
These people could ALL be doing better, and they SHOULD, but they don't. And if you call them out, they will retort with the absolutely stupid argument: "I pay 15$ a month, I play the game as I want!"

[Skivvy]

Read the thread please. The main complaint here is NOT about people who are mediocre, but trying. The main complaint is about people who couldn't give a damn. Be it "Netflix&Game" players, "Ice mages", "WM-less Bards", "GB-less Machinists", "Shield-less Gladiators", "Fairy-less Scholars", players with gear that's CLEARLY not suited for the given content, etc.
These people could ALL be doing better, and they SHOULD, but they don't. And if you call them out, they will retort with the absolutely stupid argument: "I pay 15$ a month, I play the game as I want!"

Is this thread really then about a very small minority of players who play to their own tune? Perhaps I'm just extraordinarily lucky, but I've only run into a handful (maybe 2?) of people who are there to do their own thing. Most people seem to try and make some effort at least. Their efforts may not result in anything spectacular, but they do what they can.

Honestly, if you are constantly running across people who "could and SHOULD be doing better, but just aren't", maybe the issue is with you and your expectations are set far too high for encounters with random people.

[Jamein]

Is this thread really then about a very small minority of players who play to their own tune? Perhaps I'm just extraordinarily lucky, but I've only run into a handful (maybe 2?) of people who are there to do their own thing. Most people seem to try and make some effort at least. Their efforts may not result in anything spectacular, but they do what they can.

Honestly, if you are constantly running across people who "could and SHOULD be doing better, but just aren't", maybe the issue is with you and your expectations are set far too high for encounters with random people.

Go into Alex normal, turn on parser and check out what numbers people pull. Do this over and over and eventually you really start to see how BADLY some people are doing. People in FULL eso gear sometimes pull around 500-600 DPS (and I've had a number pulling 200-500 with eso weapons/gear which is absolutely unforgivable as this is auto attack damage), this is pre-heavensward numbers. This is either really bad play/lack of game knowledge or pure lazyness and basically means unless the rest of the DPS do above AVERAGE DPS, you aint clearing. So what it comes down too is there are a good percentage of players, who get carried. No one is asking these players to do 1k+ DPS outside of savage, but if you are constantly below average then you could, and should, do better because it only requires you to get a good grasp on the BASICS of your class.

I'm far from expecting too much from people, if the majority of the playerbase could pull an average amount I would be pretty happy but that is not the case, plenty don't even come close and underperform by a mile.

[Skivvy]

Go into Alex normal, turn on parser and check out what numbers people pull. Do this over and over and eventually you really start to see how BADLY some people are doing. People in FULL eso gear sometimes pull around 500-600 DPS (and I've had a number pulling 200-500 with eso weapons/gear which is absolutely unforgivable as this is auto attack damage), this is pre-heavensward numbers. This is either really bad play/lack of game knowledge or pure lazyness and basically means unless the rest of the DPS do above AVERAGE DPS, you aint clearing. So what it comes down too is there are a good percentage of players, who get carried. No one is asking these players to do 1k+ DPS outside of savage, but if you are constantly below average then you could, and should, do better because it only requires you to get a good grasp on the BASICS of your class.

I'm far from expecting too much from people, if the majority of the playerbase could pull an average amount I would be pretty happy but that is not the case, plenty don't even come close and underperform by a mile.

I know it can be incredibly frustrating to have players who don't perform well, but unless you know for a fact they are trolling or just being lazy, all you can really do it make the best of what you're given. And by that I mean either try and give them some basic pointers and push through, kick the member, or leave yourself.

As mentioned by myself and several others in the, there are a multitude of reasons why someone may not be up to snuff. Not going to get into the details, but every time someone makes a comment along those lines, we get told "You're missing the point of the thread! This is about people who blatantly play their job in a non-standard way and don't care about the party". Seems this thread is confused on what point it's trying to get across. And that's what my reply to Sir Darts was about

Personally, when I've seen people be guilty of this it's always been the tank or healer who wants a fast queue. They have no desire to actually learn the job (i.e. Scholars who rely on the fairy to heal EVERYTHING, White Mages who refuse to use Esuna, Paladins not using flash or cooldowns, etc.) , they want to get in and out of roulette as quickly as possible. I'm sure, being a white mage, you've come across your fair share of tissue paper tanks lol.

I actually ran into my first SCH this week who refused to do anything except let the fairy heal! I take it back, he did do SOMETHING - he was doing emotes and dancing the whole time. -.- Granted this was a low level dungeon, so the fairy was enough healing, but he made it very clear he would do nothing else. So I'm not saying these people don't exist, just that they seem to be pretty rare (thankfully!).

[AnaviAnael]

Snips for post limit.

Personally, when I've seen people be guilty of this it's always been the tank or healer who wants a fast queue. They have no desire to actually learn the job (i.e. Scholars who rely on the fairy to heal EVERYTHING, White Mages who refuse to use Esuna, Paladins not using flash or cooldowns, etc.) , they want to get in and out of roulette as quickly as possible. I'm sure, being a white mage, you've come across your fair share of tissue paper tanks lol.

[Havenae]

Might be of beneficial merit to note that not everyone devotes their lives to an MMO. Some people have real lives, they have work, they have kids. They have *GASP*... dunn dunn dunnnnnn.... other hobbies.

Some people just play just to have fun. They're not all into being the best of the best of the whatever. Which even if you are into that.. it's really kind of an enormous waste anyway. Because unless you're going 'pro' sometime soon.. you're really just jerking off while being an asshole about it.

[FeliAiko]

"I have a real life" shouldnt hinder you from being able to read and apply basic knowledge given to you in-game, or ask for advice if you're struggling on a matter. If such things are a problem to people in a social game, then they should stick to single player stuff where what's considered fun to them doesn't cause detriment to others.

[Havenae]

"I have a real life" shouldnt hinder you from being able to read and apply basic knowledge given to you in-game, or ask for advice if you're struggling on a matter. If such things are a problem to people in a social game, then they should stick to single player stuff where what's considered fun to them doesn't cause detriment to others.

I think you're missing the point.

It's not about being hindered... It's about not really caring THAT MUCH as to warrant studying for a boss fight in a game like it's a fucking exam.

Or I guess.. 'not caring' isn't the right way to put it. More like, simply not a high priority.

More like, you people take this shit WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

[Jamein]

I think you're missing the point.

It's not about being hindered... It's about not really caring THAT MUCH as to warrant studying for a boss fight in a game like it's a fucking exam.

Or I guess.. 'not caring' isn't the right way to put it. More like, simply not a high priority.

More like, you people take this shit WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

No one is asking you to know the game inside out and memorise every single boss fight, the problem right now is people literally don't care as you put it and don't even bother learning their own classes basics let alone the fights because someone else will carry them, and that to me means you need to go back to single player games, this is an MMO, which means you work together with other people. If you're lack of caring is screwing over 7 other people then you're a complete asshole.

[RiceisNice]

I think you're missing the point.

It's not about being hindered... It's about not really caring THAT MUCH as to warrant studying for a boss fight in a game like it's a fucking exam.

Or I guess.. 'not caring' isn't the right way to put it. More like, simply not a high priority.

More like, you people take this shit WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

Something like not knowing the boss is not an excuse to be spamming blizzard one or the same weaponskill over and over and failing basic job mechanics like comboing or DoT usage. The two aren't even related, let alone knowing the basics of your class/job being "an exam".

True.

On that same note, "YOUR gear isnt optimal," and "YOUR rotation isnt optimal," are also poor arguments for being bad.

Playstyle goes hand in hand with rotation. But the discussion is more on knowing the basics/fundamentals of your class rather than be optimal. Even a DRG that's in DEX accessories can do relatively fine compared to a DRG in full accessories who never does a full full thrust combo.