Why do people want trash?

[Seryl199]

Don't know.

Haven't seen a time limit over 90 minutes though.

This is probably because of server load issues. Closing the instance frees resources.

The CT chain and, if memory serves me right, CM and Praetorium have 120 minute timers, the highest I've seen. I'd love to see some more sprawling layouts to actually make use of that time, rather than spawning in front of the boss and commence the wiping for 90 minutes.

Because I want my Blinds, Stuns, Binds, Sleeps, and Heavies to work and not get magically 100% resisted because somebody said so. >_>

Meaningful crowd control would be an absolute hoot as well. It would definitely add some flavor to have working interrupts and be able to manipulate mobs, allowing you to prioritize threats that can't be subdued and knocking the more troublesome ones out of commission until you're ready to handle them.

[Nalien]

Just like in Turn 2

Turn 2 and Turn 10 are probably my favorite... They actually had something going on in the lead up to the fight (even if Turn 2s fight ended up being a joke), where as Alexander (and a fair bit of Coil, but at least Coils encounters were actually epic, for the most part) just has nothing... Heck, I like Turn 3 for the same reason, Turn 3 is just fun to run through...

If anything, I imagine that is why I grew bored of Alexander so quickly... It was just throw yourself at bosses over and over, there was not gap in between to do something else... Take Praetorium (which is, at least from a level design point, the best raid this game has), do I get tired of riding through the place on Magitek and crushing everything? Not at all. If it was just Magitek Colossus and then instantly Nero, with the fights actually being on a scale similar to Coil/Alexander, I'd be bored of that just as quickly as I am of Alexander. Stomping through the place on Magitek was just incredibly satisfying, that's the kind of feeling trash in raids should be aiming to replicate. I think the whole point, of either trash or puzzles, is to create a buffer between bosses, because just doing bosses back to back is simply something that becomes boring quickly, unless there is a sense of epicness about the encounter, which is another thing Praetorium got right, Nero, Gaius and Lahabrea were all basically just there to be easy and make you feel epic before throwing a "tough" encounter at you, where as A1S > A2S > A3S > A4S is just tough encounter after tough encounter...

What I would give to have a Praetorium (Savage)...

[SendohJin]

Edit: Why the hell do iPads auto correct tomestone to tombstone?

because one is a real word and the other isn't.

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Trials should be Trials and Raids should be Raids. i don't think the hardest content in the game during any given patch (like Coil or Alexander) has to be raids.

Raids should have trash. but as with most things, if you're going to do it poorly, you might as well not do it.

Trash should have consequences. either you do them properly and you get a bonus or you do them wrong and get a penalty or both.

something like in WoD, you have the Atomos trash section the less people that get sucked in the higher the drop rate for minion drop at the end.

[Gunspec]

"You don't deserve to fight a boss unless you spend at least an hour fighting basic enemy packs from which you receive no rewards, and these enemies will respawn every 30 minutes, so if you don't clear the boss within that time, you will have to fight them again just to get to whichever boss you were stuck on."


Keeping it grouchy.

But no, trash is very easy to design poorly, and very rare to be seen implemented in a manner that isn't a waste of time. It's good when if has a purpose, like xp or building the theme of the dungeon you are adventuring through, but for level-cap content where players may attempt the same fight 20-30 times in a single night, it is just a waste of time getting to the real objective.

Trash is best used to pad the "run time" of a dungeon or raid. That works in dungeons that are designed for 30 minutes clears, or 24-man raids that are designed for 60 minute clears, as long as the path to each boss is unique and interesting. I think Hullbreaker Island is a good example of this. In hardcore raids, however, the main event will always be the bosses themselves. They aren't designed to be cleared in a single attempt, or on a single night, so there is no reason to drag out the "run time" with trash that is in consequential to the boss fight. And sure, there are notable exceptions, but more often than not, the trash is just a chore that punishes raiders for wanting to leave the instance and return later.

[Phireblast]

"You don't deserve to fight a boss unless you spend at least an hour fighting basic enemy packs from which you receive no rewards, and these enemies will respawn every 30 minutes, so if you don't clear the boss within that time, you will have to fight them again just to get to whichever boss you were stuck on."


Keeping it grouchy.


But no, trash is very easy to design poorly, and very rare to be seen implemented in a manner that isn't a waste of time. It's good when if has a purpose, like xp or building the theme of the dungeon you are adventuring through, but for level-cap content where players may attempt the same fight 20-30 times in a single night, it is just a waste of time getting to the real objective.

You do realize that with the raids in this game that had trash mobs, you didn't have to go through them again until the next reset, right? At least before they heavily nerfed Second Coil. Even with CT, the trash would be gone permanently.

[Gunspec]

You do realize that with the raids in this game that had trash mobs, you didn't have to go through them again until the next reset, right? At least before they heavily nerfed Second Coil. Even with CT, the trash would be gone permanently.

But a grouch remembers other games, and drags them around into every discussion, telling everyone that things will never be better than the garbage from yesteryear. Look, I just really wanted to bring Oscar into this conversation...

And yes, thank god they don't have respawning trash in ffxiv.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

If the mobs gave something meaningful, then they wouldn't be called trash anymore.

[Andevom]

But wait, then there's that one i200 player that has seemingly run the dungeon several dozen times but triggers the trap anyway and is flamed by everyone else in the party, like opening the chest in World of Darkness. Fun fun.

If the party is flaming someone for triggering a trap that's required to be triggered to proceed, then it's their fault for being clueless.

That said, I agree the novelty of traps would wear off pretty fast.

[Warlyx]

If the mobs gave something meaningful, then they wouldn't be called trash anymore.

nah , that term comes from EQ , cant remember the dungeon ...Unrest? yard trash mobs ...and after a while just trash... doesnt mean that mobs are worthless , because ppl used that mobs to exp

but yeah , trash needs to drop something worthy (gear mats ...) , and DONT RESPAWN until next lockout ...

But i think we will have enough with Airship exploration i guess...

[Etiken]

If you rather mindlessly kill trash for hours, go play WoW. Being forced into clearing trash eliminates the ability for casual statics that only raid a few hours a week to enjoy and progress through end game content. Please SE, don't add trash to these raids. It is completely unnecessary and a total waste of time. SOO boring