Warrior of Darkness: alter ego or something completely different?

[Iris_BP]

SInce the introduction of WoD at the end of HW main story quest I always thought that it's WoL alter ego. Which made sense for me, because it would've deepened the character portrait. During the MSQ you're so absolutely lawful good, never do anything wrong (even if you'd like to), aureole of saint shines above your head all the time so I thought it would be only natural to show the other side, that you have some darkness in you too. Alas I was wrong and we see a midlander warrior and his "CGI team" in the preview painted in black. This made me a little bit sad, because honestly the personality of WoL is still shallow. Granted, they made you less of an errand girl/boy for scions in HW, but that's not enough! I guess it's just my wishful thinking, but the introduction of WoD and Bishop's words "What are you?" made me think that we're not so onesided of a hero and now my hopes are definitely fractured if not shattered to pieces.
On a side note I'm interested how will they deliver the "CGI team" as servants of the dark side? It seemed like they were always the incarnation of WoL team (hence my thoughts about alter ego). We don't have much time to speculate since it's only two weeks before release of 3.1 but I'm still interested in peoples opinions.

[Anonymoose]

I've been staying in Please Look Forward To It™ mode, myself.

Still, I'm surprised to see the theories so focused, mostly clustered between, "It's you as a dark doppleganger," and, "It's the CG Party; they're evil". It could be neither. I mean, if it is the CG Party, who usually represent "us" (not you or me, but the general idea of adventurers on Hydaelyn's path), they no longer can unless we "free" them, or something, right? Who'd star as "us" in the next trailer? Until there's any evidence to add to their appearance, my baseline assumption has been that they're just the Warriors of Darkness - period; nothing deeper implied - and that they "just happen" to look like the CG Party in order to drive home the idea that they are adventurers, like us, but on a different path.

I guess I've developed a fondness for playing it safe on lore futures, lol.

[Iris_BP]

they're just the Warriors of Darkness - period; nothing deeper implied - and that they "just happen" to look like the CG Party in order to drive home the idea that they are adventurers, like us, but on a different path..

I think thats what people hope the WoD can be, not merely a villain , cause we simply plow that away. Something that explores what the WoL is, the possible consequences of our countless victories.

Tis true, but this resemblance to a "standard" party is what bugs me a lot. Just why from all people they'd choose this look and those characters?

[Enkidoh]

I'm with Moose here... in that we really don't know much at all to go on, other than... the WoD's 'party' just happens to look like Derplander's party in the End of an Era trailer (and apparently 'evil Derplander' is very snarky given by that "So, you are the Warrior of Light, the savioour of Eorzea?" line he oozes out at the very end of the trailer. ).

I have my own personal theories about this (that they are simply a crude dark aetheric copy of what the Ascians think exemplify adventurers like Derplander/the WoL, and created very much like a Primal - after all this very forum debated just such a possibility not that long ago ), but I'm keeping an open mind and waiting to be shocked and surprised when 3.1 finally hits.

Incidentally, a final clue which definitely leads in favour towards the 'evil aetheric copy of the WoL' is the lalafel WHM in Derplander's party - the 'WoD' version would blatantly contradict the fact that the WHM Job is still very much taboo and that the only actual WHM lore wise is the player (the WoL) - the Guardian Tree simply is not lore wise dispensing White Mage Soul Crystals like candy and the one possessed by the player is unique. So, score 1 towards the 'evil doppleganger' theory.

[Kallera]

I'm waiting an seeing too, but I think what people are looking for the WoD to be is more than just a card carrying villain. They want depth and conflict pertaining to us, and the best source of this is our countless gravy train of simple plots. Adventurers, despite being considered sellswords, are almost all on one side of things, with the right thing to do. We are the lawful good symbol of Eorzean dominance....who leaves countless dead in our wake. What if we didn't have the easy choice anymore? What if our actions and victories bave an unintended consequence? Or hydaelyn tells us to do something that conflicts with our mortal allegiances?

Subjects such as the WoD, the DRK, and im sure other things show a sense of complexity in the setting and our role in it, rather than our superior or inferior telling us what to and how to act.

Then again, speculation can get wild. They can always play it safe again...

[Anonymoose]

NOTE: The following quote has been deleted, but I'd still like to respond to the general idea.

But for as much hope as we spread to people, do we not also leave scores of dead and crushed hopes in our wake? The lasting symbol of death for any who resists the status quo of eorzea's rise? I think its not. It adds more to the world when "darkness" is more than simply "mistaken".

I'd definitely like to keep leaving my mind wide open to this. We are seen as better than we are. There's a tendency, whenever any one person puts another in harms way on behalf of a different point of view, for the Warrior of Light to see little problem mowing them down. You'd think a person here or there would have more to say about it than, "Yeah, he probably was a wanker. Move along." The few who do usually turn out to be "bad", themselves.

As for how this relates to the Warriors of Darkness, I suppose this calls for a tangentially related holistic rant. (Forgive me.)

Thematically speaking, (so far) all of our questionable actions and ethically gray decisions have been on deeper, more complex levels of the game's storytelling (i.e. our interactions with people and politics and such). The highest, most fundamental parts of the story, however, uniformly paint us as The Righteous (so far). There is The Light, that on the side of Hydaelyn (and thus, as far as we've been led to believe, corporeal existence and mortals as a general concept), and there is The Darkness, that which wants to swallow it. Inside the world of The Light, there is a huge spectrum of good and evil, wise and misguided, honorable and dishonorable, and that's where the gray usually manifests in relation to the Warrior of Light.

I'm having a lot of trouble convincing myself to let go of that worldview just because Elidibus says so. The other Ascians, the "reincarnation set", are clearly painted as being aligned with The Darkness, but Elidibus presents himself as the man of reason; the Arbiter of balance. He says that he wants to put us back on the right path. That would cause a lot more self-doubt for me if the sales pitch didn't include Zodiark's return and Hydaelyn - including the world and mortals - being lost in a reversion to a previous form. If he was simply saying that Zodiark needs to come back and the two need to co-exist in balance, I'd be a lot more worried about Hydaelyn's wisdom in saying "No, no, don't worry about it, spread the light." But Elidibus has never denied that She must be undone.

According to the game's core lore foundations, She made us; we are Hydaelyn's children. Does Elidibus have a place for Her orphans when things go back to "the way they were"? And let's not forget that (apparently, so far) Elidibus only considered Lahabrea's approach, methods, and perspective misguided. He thought his endgame was right on (at least, up until he was way more interested in Project Primal than Project Zodiark). Call me loyal to a fault, but I need more assurances if I'm going to be questioning Mother (and Susan Calloway).

Sure, Elidibus could be exactly what this world needs - a true harbinger of balance. Maybe Hydaelyn and Zodiark will cancel each other out and we'll all have a place in the new-old-world-order. I can get on board with that, should it be the case. But, as a child of Hydaelyn, at this point in time, I've got waaay more reason to believe that Elidibus is the classic Final Fantasy head trip; you spend half of the game thinking, "Finally, a reasonable person. Have I been doing the right thing?" and the other half wondering why you ever questioned yourself, because this dude is even worse than who I thought the antagonist was a few hours ago.

However, my track record on predicting the future has been wiggy-at-best since about 2.2, 2.3ish. I'm prepared to be dead wrong.

I'll come back to this after we know where the f[KUPO!]k this Warriors of Darkness thing is going.

[Kallera]

Tis true, but this resemblance to a "standard" party is what bugs me a lot. Just why from all people they'd choose this look and those characters?

Your guess is as good as mine. I hope it has something to do with either the adventuring community or what we are becoming.

[Iris_BP]

What if we didn't have the easy choice anymore? Or hydaelyn tells us to do something that conflicts with our mortal allegiances?

That happened a lot of times, take Kobolds for example, Limsa broke the contract, took their lands, no wonder they hate humans. And then we go and slaughter their kin, kill their god and everyone is okay with that. It definitely conflicted with my moral code (especially as a WHM, lol). As for unintended consequence look at the Braves (although many would argue that it went just as planned by evil lalafels).

In any case, I still hope that there is some more to it than just another standard villain in form of a derplander warrior...

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Like Anonymoose said, I also have a hard time buying the sales pitch from Elidibus. A handful of people on the other boards in this forum seem to think Elidibus' ideals and plans are best (though I think these players just want to be the bad guy/dark guy for the sake of it), but he hasn't said anything that would convince me otherwise. It's the typical vague nonsense where a character refuses to give any clarification and strings you along until they feel like explaining everything in full. Why is a balance needed that badly? Why do we need primals wandering around sucking up aether? Why does Zodiark need to return? Until I am give an answer besides "lawl balance", then the Ascians can go suck it.


I think the WOD and his crew will be just extensions of the Ascians will, so expect more vague BS while we clash swords with them.

[Belhi]

There is a pretty common theme in a number of the Job quests which presents Darkness not as evil but as a flipside to the Light. In the monk quests we see Light and Shadow Sects and see the flaws that both historically had. The DRK quests in particular explore darkness, particularly the darkness inside the WoL and again its not explicitly evil. You can even point at the BLM story in proving that BLM, though a fundamentally destructive art, isn't inherently evil.

To add to this you could argue that Thordin represented the Light more than the Darkness. He was big on Order and the Greater good. Consider that DRKs who by their nature harness and channel the Darkness are born out of the desire for justice in a culture of monolithic and unquestioning order and devotion.

This isn't to say I think the Ascians are misunderstood 'good guys'. I'm just not going to leap to the conclusion the WoD is. I suspect Elidibus plays his own game and the WoD is as much a pawn to him as we have been in the past. Im also not convinced the Ascians actually want balance.

I think balance will be a theme of this expansion. Finding the balance between Light and Darkness.

Its also worth remembering that in FF games Warriors of Darkness haven't necessarily been the antagonists.