Angry Bards

[Malevicton]

Just WHERE was the need to move the class closer to others (wether its blm smn heal or mch does not matter to me at all) by slapping all those WM related downsides of other classes on this one different free spirited class in terms of movement and rotation/skills? I get it changes were made, i and other brds need to #adopt #l2p or #gtfo. I just cant bring myself to agree this is a good way to turn things

Arguing from "need" is always a bit iffy. They don't need to do pretty much anything. You could use that same argument against literally everything in the expansion. We don't need new zones, flying, enochian, botd, etc. But it's the way they wanted to go with it. It didn't "need" to stay the way it was, either.

If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to agree to like it. What RinchanNau and rappa are saying is that the job works fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people just don't enjoy it, others do, but there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't "need" to change.

[TiaHeart]

BRD was a niche filler for all those who didn't enjoy other classes for reasons of
- cast times
- movement freedom
- tight rotation setups
-> playing out slow and somewhat tedious, doing the same over n over n over, just because its "the best way to go".
They broke every single aspect of what made the brd niche, casualpleasing, reaching a crowd other classes didnt. All im sayin- since this is an angry bard thread. Bad move. Why am i saying it? To voice my opinion in hopes of seeing changes that actually bring back the benefits listed above, because imho a god darn rangertype SHOULD play fast, spontaneous, free roamin etc. And weaker than melee or glasscanons/casts but still noticeable as a DD. Do i believe SE, like many devs would ever backpaddle "just" because a proportion of gamers liked stuff the way it was? Ha, ney. Its a rant thread called angry bards, and OP even asked you peeps that are pointing out the obvious "bard can still clear this easy game, git gud" to not post yo.

[TiaHeart]

Arguing from "need" is always a bit iffy.

Agree and disagree 50/50. The overall statement will probably be true, but there definitely are exceptions.

They don't need to do pretty much anything

Yes, they actually do. From a business perspective. If they dont care to do proper business, you are right.

You could use that same argument against literally everything in the expansion

I cant, not while sounding at least somewhat reasonable to followers. I challenge changes that imho are bad, do not comment on those I dont care for and applaud for those i like. You do the same i assume

We don't need new zones, flying, enochian, botd, etc.

Not any of the points isolated, but overall yes. If you push an "expansion" like HW and go further to expect making money/ profit of it without adding anything at all, people might sue for fraud and win the case lol or ignore your product letting you iron out the investments and costs from your personal wallet at least

But it's the way they wanted to go with it

I guess so

It didn't "need" to stay the way it was, either.

No it didn't. I would actually be disappointed if everything but one thing/class received changes. However i was expecting more gains less losses regarding my own preferances and those of fellow brd people.

But for whatever you say about "need" being iffy, i will come back as follows:
In my oppinion it does not take a rocksolid reason to ADD stuff (pushing an expansion or keeping/increasing subs/customers aside), but if you plan to REMOVE something you better come up with one
(which i just happen to feel they did more to brd than actually add something. This is obviously just an oppinion. Im okay with people saying brd is now more fun to them as ever before. Im less okay with people dismissing different oppinions per se by dealwithit or gitgud or parser. Those terms arent reasonable arguments to me. They are for the ones to lazy to apply logic)

If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to agree to like it.

I pretty much dont need to do anything. I guess. But i still say what i expect to get for my money D: feedback is always positive as long as it includes arguments.

What RinchanNau and rappa are saying is that the job works fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people just don't enjoy it, others do, but there's nothing wrong with it.

My POV: if you change something and less people end up liking it than before, you did bad. Doing bad equals wrong. Am i saying thats how it definitely is backing it up with statistics? No, because I cant. Do i feel thats the way it is? Yes. I may be wrong. Im aware of that.

It doesn't "need" to change.

You are right, it doesnt need to. I still hope for it ^^
The fact they rework brd every patch since hw launch keeps my hopes up, the way HOW they rework it doesnt.
[But yeah, i also think SE isnt at the same prime as square was with the seiken densetsu franchise or ff1-10. Or enix used to be at the same time with their products. So what D: ]

[Sirabit]

When I count the DPS classes in Idyllshire, it is indeed not a lot of Bards in the whole town, compare to what is used to be in the main hubs.

Now #1 is Dragoons, #2 Monks...

Anyone shares the same observation with me?

[rappa]

When I count the DPS classes in Idyllshire, it is indeed not a lot of Bards in the whole town, compare to what is used to be in the main hubs.

Now #1 is Dragoons, #2 Monks...

Anyone shares the same observation with me?

Bandwagon. If a job is to hard to play or need more focus to be played. Then they play others.

[TiaHeart]

Bandwagon. If a job is to hard to play or need more focus to be played. Then they play others.

Frankly, people like you bore me to death. Can you ever pick up a single argument via quote and say it doesnt sound reasonable? You jump into the same discussion 10 times saying "i feel different". Thats ok, you are entitled your oppinion just like evebody else is. But pls 15 posts with 2 arguments? You are a sheep, meh meh meh *post yoshi git gud pic here*

- brds used to not 1 2 3 and could at the expanse of 10 to 20 dps, not 300 for "imperfect rotation" as long as they were fast, hit procs, multidotted, used a reasonable aoe rotation (again, procs/free shots) They cant no more. Aoe rotation doesnt exist. 50 aoe is uhm dead, and 45 only has a point if your party doesnt exceed acc cap for the content (read: high tier raid). They had 3 aoe skills to work with, now its 1. They had 2 dots to keep alive on several targets with single refreshes, now its 1 target 2 dots, 1 refresh skill. Added depth? My ass. My ass

- there used to be 3 types of dd on 6 jobs: melee(3), ranged(1), cast(2). They brought an "expansion" and its 2 types after, with 7 jobs instead of 6. Melee(3) and cast(2)[hybrids(2)] Added stuff? Hahaha

[rappa]

Snip

Report me or ignore my words.

BTW, you could read this part of the conversation and follow the discussion. You could learn a lot. I left my "elitist enlightenment" to talk about rotations.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3399656

[TiaHeart]

Report me

What for? Is making discussions repitive against the rules?

or ignore my words.

I considered that but its hard for various reasons. Mainly me being unhappy and you advocating stuff i blame

BTW, you could read this part of the conversation and follow the discussion. You could learn a lot. I left my "elitist enlightenment" to talk about rotations.

Im sure i at least skipped over most of those posts. They do not help my personal situation much without the ability of me parsing myself. Thats a topic I participate in as well.
I just feel Im supposed to swallow whatever is on the plate, hence the sheep remark. Learning stuff, gathering experience, coming to conclusions is a totally different thing. You can write down a perfect rotation and its cool, as long as i cant judge it comfortably my game will be different. I mean imagine i was followin wm fans and their perfect rotations at the time where wm was attacked by the theorycrafters as well, prebuff. Wouldnt i be darn stupid to coope with things I dont like, to get even more "punished" for doing it?

The point was it seemed the 50 aoe is vital to ARR rotation. Obvious by the numbers and side effects described in the game, to the player. You would want the freeshots generated by it, because brds would run out of tp eventually and the game tells you tp song hurts. They removed those. I removed the 50 skill from my bar, and the 45, spamming the 30 skill only. Thats probably not "the right way to go", but the hilarious part is how i could even possibly start feeling that way, and ignore most high level skills only to "be told" our raid is not at acc cap here, pls use 45 aoe (on single targets at that).

Goin by potency, tp cost, and side effect 50>45>30, while all being used worked fine for my understandin of game complexity. Eating another persons forum posts just to understand how the higher level skills might at times be useful to optimize yourself doesnt. Im comin at it from a way different angle than you do obviously, and thats fine. My problem is how your posts seem to not pick up the specific argument and help people understand where they are wrong. You will likely make points, but they are just to easy to miss in a "l2p" way. You say it adds depth to not multidot for good dps. I feel it doesnt, it removes depth. You say its good for an aoe to be used on single targets, not groups. The logic escapes me, and why I should like the idea. Not the fact that it might be still true. You say it adds depth if there is one skill considered "core mechanic" that has to be used to even gain access to the all the other skills. I dont. I feel there is 0 depth in a game that tells me how A B C B C D... Is the only best way to go. And that the margin for doin any different wont be starting at 1% worse, but instantly 15%+ or whatever the significant number will be

[AkashiXI]

Report me or ignore my words.

BTW, you could read this part of the conversation and follow the discussion. You could learn a lot. I left my "elitist enlightenment" to talk about rotations.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3399656

Side note: why do you think it's better to use EA over Bloodletter? Mathematically it's proven that two BL procs is more dps over the course activating EA (if BL procs again during your EA cast).

[Felessan]

The point was it seemed the 50 aoe is vital to ARR rotation. Obvious by the numbers and side effects described in the game, to the player. You would want the freeshots generated by it, because brds would run out of tp eventually and the game tells you tp song hurts. They removed those. I removed the 50 skill from my bar, and the 45, spamming the 30 skill only.

Multidotting and spamming rain of death off BL procs (Rain of Death now OffCD AoE that resets together with BL) gives you more dps on average number of targets (3-4) than simply spamming Quick Nock.
Bard now have 3 setups - single-target, low number of enemies AoE and high number of enemies AoE that makes different use of skills.

So now we have 2 usefull skills and 1 very situational instead of 1 that used always and 2 quite situational.