What is Zodiark?

[Februs]

Who exactly is worshipping the Warring Triad? It could be that true Eikon's require no worshipers.

I'm not convinced the Warring Triad are Eikons at all.

Again, this will be purely speculative since FFXIV hasn't said anything about it yet, but the lore of the Warring Triad in FFVI would imply that they Warring Triad are not Eikons themselves; however they may have created the Eikons.

I was pretty young when I played FF VI, but if I remember correctly, during their war between the Triad, the mortals that got caught in the cross fire were turned into Espers (summons, basically) and forced to fight for their masters against one another. This was a "war," after all. The Espers were slaves of the Warring Triad and forced to fight in it. It was not until the Warring Triad had a change of heart and sealed away their own powers that the Espers were set free and given their free will back. If FFXIV is following the same lore as FF VI, than it would follow that The Warring Triad are not Eikons. They would be "True Gods." They do not require followers or worshipers or faith to sustain their existences. They just exist, plain and simple.

Also, if that is the case than the Eikons we know may have originally been tools that the Warring Triad created to war with one another. We do not know the origin of every primal we've faced, however we have learned from Odin, Bahamut, and Shiva, that most (if not all) Primals are twisted versions of real beings that once exist (or may still exist, in the case of Odin). This would fit with the Warring Triad lore. The original process of taking a mortal (Immortal, in the case of Dragons... though they can be killed, so, "half-immortal") and creating a corrupted super-powered version of it was invented by the Warring Triad.

In regards to Odin, it's true that the lore panel states that "he succumb to its power, becoming the Primal we know and love/hate." However, that process is not different from that which iceheart or Louisoux used to summon Shiva or Phoenix. The sword was just using a human host. It's a little different than the other two Eikons we have seen, but not unique or somehow meaning that faith/worship is not required. Odin needed power. He put his faith into the sword when he claimed it as his own, and that was all of the ceremony it needed. Further, we don't know for certain what actually happened to Odin. It's entirely possible that the sword (similar to the way the Warring Triad originally did it) converted his mortal essence into an Esper, and that the phantom we see as Odin is all that is left of him... but it's also just as possible that his real body survived. If Odin had the echo, for example, he may have been corrupted by the blade, but able to regain his true self once he was separated from it. Sadly, we don't know all the details.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I want a rematch with Odin. When the Trial came up after so long of chasing the Odin FATE around the Black Shroud I was thoroughly excited for the patch just for that.

So I'm definitely hoping for a rematch. (I wonder if that's how Greg feels about facing off against us in endless rematches? lol)

[Cilia]

I still hold to the idea that Hydaelyn is a "fake," man-made Zodiark, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's evil or malicious. Just that she's a fake. The hypothesis here is that Zodiark was a jackass god, so the first men created Hydaelyn as a preferrable alternative in the same way beast tribes created the primals to deliver them from his jackassery.

Tempering? Well... from what we know, it's the Ascians who taught the beast tribes the summoning ritual, and that's why they tend to be jackass fakes of what they're intended to be (Good King Moggle Mog XII, f'ex). Considering that I find it likely that the Ascians can modify the summoning ritual to suit their needs, and the "tempering clause" is something that can be left out. Hydaelyn, being the very first primal, was one whose development was not influenced by the Ascians, since they either didn't exist or weren't aware of primals yet. They took Hydaelyn and used her creation to encourage the beast tribes to make their own "fake Zodiarks" in order to weaken her and bring Zodiark back.

Well, that's the theory anyway. (Patiently waits for 3.1 to debunk muh crazy crackpot theories)

[Frederick22]

Hydaelyn being a primal leaves a lot of answerered questions, lots of thind that on my opinon wouldnt make sense. Yes anyone can say that, "Hydaelyn being the fist prmal is totally different from what we know of primals" but the doubts are still there. A primal needs aether as a fuel.

From what is Hydaelyn is absorving aether? Please dont say is Zordiark lol, that leave even more questions than aswers.

My opinion of why Zordiark is called "the one true god" is beacuse he believes it based that the darkness may be the true force above everithing. In orther worths the darkness was the first thing, if not was there for the eternity. He may think is the true god beacuse the light came after the dark.

Why do we say dark? we call that to the only place the light doesnt reach, but why if there is no light? Do we say that the hole place is on darkness?
If the light came after the dark, how could such we know those meanings? How could we know all is on darkness, if there is no such line between them. But when the light cames, it makes the difference, it makes see something in another way and the rest on another.

Either way this all could be all wrong and maybe Se desided that zodiark is just a lesser god or forgotten " 13th " that betrays Hydaelyn.

[Februs]

I want a rematch with Odin. When the Trial came up after so long of chasing the Odin FATE around the Black Shroud I was thoroughly excited for the patch just for that.

Likewise. I was supremely disappointed by the Trial against Odin. For an guy who is supposedly an Elder Primal, that was pitiful. I was glad to learn that they were basically only using it as an opening to a larger story arc... which I'm hoping eventually leads to some answers concerning what actually happened between Urth, Odin, and Wiyu (as it seems like a pretty tragic story at this point) and hopefully his very own Raid.

[Februs]

Snip.

I like the idea that Hydaelyn is a fake, or stand-in, for Zodiark, and I agree that her status as a stand-in does not necessarily mean she's "evil." That being said, lore wise I'm not sure I'm as open to the idea that she is some form of Primal.

I've been taking most of my lore ques on this subject from the previous games that SE seems to be drawing content/inspiration from. So, if SE is holding strong to the lore of FFVI and XII/Tactics, it stands that there are "Gods" that are absolutely not dependent on Human prayer/faith/belief to sustain themselves and may, in fact, be the source of aether rather than requiring it to survive. The biggest nod to this is the recent addition of the Warring Triad to the game. If SE keeps the lore in tact, than the Warring Triad are not Pirmals/Eikons, but rather they actually created the first Primals in order to war against one another. If Hydaelyn and Zodiark are above them than I highly doubt they're Primals (albeit very strong ones).

Honestly, SE could just be making this all up from scratch and recycling the names from previous games (wouldn't be the first time. See Cid's numerous incarnations), but I really hope they're not. I think I'd find the original history to the Warring Triad much more interesting in the context of FFXIV than simply having every new "god" we encounter be exactly the same and have the same fundamental nature. For one, it would be boring to think that the most supreme and elite of all the gods/superbeings in FFXIV's universe are going to be explained as: "oh, it's just a really really strong primal," and it just wouldn't make sense, really. I mean, in theory. At least some of these deities have to have existed before humanoid species evolved. They can't be sustaining themselves on our faith if we didn't exist at the time, right?

Also, if all of the gods, Hydaelyn included, turn out to be primals, than the logical solution to all of the problems of FFXIV would be to simply put a stop to belief entirely... Which would probably require the mass genocide of all species, everywhere, throughout the cosmos... Admittedly, that would make for a very interesting plot twist, but I don't think we've seen any villains in FFXIV so far who have that kind of special brand of Kefka level insanity.

[Morningstar1337]

Also, if all of the gods, Hydaelyn included, turn out to be primals, than the logical solution to all of the problems of FFXIV would be to simply put a stop to belief entirely... Which would probably require the mass genocide of all species, everywhere, throughout the cosmos... Admittedly, that would make for a very interesting plot twist, but I don't think we've seen any villains in FFXIV so far who have that kind of special brand of Kefka level insanity.

Garlemald comes close. They already wanted to exterminate the Beast Tribes because they an summon primals and it is implied that once Regula comes back from Azys Lla and tells Varis about Shiva then their plains will be kicked into overdrive, their ends are likely to be in the worse case scenario, this specific omnicide.

And since Nael took cues from Sephiroth, it's possible that Regula or Varis would take on this grand of insanity (Jester motifs would be more unlikely)

[Februs]

Snip.

That's true. It crossed my mind that Varis may be the "world ending" kind of villain that we've come to know from previous FF titles, but I'm hesitant to commit to that interpretation of his character. For one, we don't really know much about him yet, as we've really only had the one encounter with him. He did show that he is willing to commit genocide to stop the summoning of false gods, but I'm not sure that's his primary goal. His approach to stopping Bismark was more of a logical conclusion than an emotionally driven hatred; so, it's hard to see him, at this point, making the leap to: "Welp, all these false gods everywhere... might as well burn the world to a cinder."

At this point, it's kind of hard to say. I think the question will be is the Garlean goal purely conquest, or is it to stop Primals? Basically, is the Garlean conquest a means of stopping all summonings, or are Tribal summonings a stone in the path to their goal of conquest, so they must be stopped for the real goal to be achieved? The motivation behind their aggression will give us some insight into how far they are willing to take it.

[Kuwagami]

At this point, it's kind of hard to say. I think the question will be is the Garlean goal purely conquest, or is it to stop Primals? Basically, is the Garlean conquest a means of stopping all summonings, or are Tribal summonings a stone in the path to their goal of conquest, so they must be stopped for the real goal to be achieved? The motivation behind their aggression will give us some insight into how far they are willing to take it.

from what we heard from Gaius, it seems to be the latter. Primals are an enormous threat for their conquest plans and thus they want to eradicate them, no matter what the cost is.

As for the "world ending villain", I'd rather have Elidibus take that role. The ministrel told us something about light and darkness, and about how one cannot wield both at once.

(french text as I could not find the english one and can't realistically grind a character just now for the english text xD )

♪La lumière de l'aube peut bien dissiper la plus sombre des nuits,
♪Mais dans le chaos, toujours le pouvoir des Primordiaux se déchaînera.
♪Deux épées les soumettront, l'une immaculée, l'autre ténébreuse,
♪Mais d'aucun ne peut espérer à la fois manier les deux.

lame translation :
light banishes darkness
in chaos, Primals go rampage
2 swords will subjugate them, one of light and one of darkness
but one cannot hope to wield both at once


So what would happen if someone (my bet would be Elidibus if FFxiv follows Golden Sun's scenario) tries to wield light and darkness at once ? World destruction is a very possible option

(btw, kind of a side note : it is rather amusing to see the quest for Odin in the "primal quest" part of the journal in game, while Ravana ex and Bismark Ex are under "Elder Primals".)

[Kallera]

Very interesting, Kuwagami. That could mean things.

As derplander and our character are (likely) both adventurers, it could refer to Eorzean countries/faction attempting to use them for their ends, to zodiark's/hydelyn's annoyance. By taking different (or conflicting) jobs, Derplander ends up trying to be a better hope for Eorzea than you. Given the movement away from light and dark with the next expansion,who's to say the outcome?

Or it could refer to our powers and someone sinister attempting to wield both the blessings, which i really would hope would leave a choice at the end for the player to freely pick a side.