Wanderer’s Minuet, Gauss Barrel and Positive Gameplay Additions

[Judge_Xero]

It'd just be a more mobile person of what we have now, more window for stepping inbertween. It might resolve SS's proc not occuring in time, buit they'd still only be able to use 1 oGCD (which I feel is still very cumbersome with bloodletter)

Those are all points that I was considering with a 1 second Cast. It would be so that you can't just run freely like 2.0, but might alleviate some of those other issues, mainly the SS proc, Repelling Shot animation delay and possibly fitting in 2 oGCD without issue if you have good latency. (0.5s delay per oGCD?)

...reworkin river of blood to give a stacking buff that increases BL damage or something.)

This would be an awesome addition. <3 Pre-Planned burst. Could you imagine A2S if you were stock piling your Procs for the large AOE sections.

[RiceisNice]

This would be an awesome addition. <3 Pre-Planned burst. Could you imagine A2S if you were stock piling your Procs for the large AOE sections.

I initially had hoped that at least one of the two jobs were designed around other utilizing controlled bursts (by stockpiling charges, like ammo in a sense) or using it as it comes up for a more consistent damage. That's how they made it seem machinist would be when they were bringing up ammo (and by proxy, skills that required ammo).

My suggestion with the lowered cast time/GCD was so that they also feel different when playing. I like the idea of being a ranged class that does plenty of multiple hits, and we've lost that when auto attacks were taken out of the equation. In a sense, it's turned into a nuker class similiar to blackmages, but with smaller numbers (and thus, the gratification/satisfaction of being a nuker class*

I'm digressing though, I want them to fix up BRD's functionality and then dehomongize their gameplay (which is different from dehomogenizing their dps/support)

[Velhart]

The OP sums it up very nicely. GB/WM as a concept is very welcoming and offers a higher skill roof for these jobs. Unfortunately they do not offer more than to keep us where we were at before. It would of been nice if the stance offered more than just to keep up. Gauss Round and Ricochet are nice, but they are just two added abilities that are only there so you do not turn the barrel off.

The idea is great, but uninspired and lacks creativity. I want SE to see this and try some methods to make it feel like a welcomed addition instead of just one more obstacle.

As for changing game play styles of BRD and MCH to make them feel different. I am all for that, but I can imagine it is a very hard thing to balance. The slightest difference can make or break a job and have people preferring one job or the other. I agree this should be a thing, but I can imagine it not being easy to balance.

One thing I definitely like seeing balanced out is which support to pick for ideal raid set ups. Really both should equally excel in these functions. Perhaps in a different fashion, but both should have equal access to buffs and regens. Right now, mages despise having a MCH in due to lack of Foe's Requiem. Sure we get a +5% physical attack buff also, but what I am thinking is shouldn't both BRD and MCH have a physical/magical buff? Or maybe make Foe's Requiem and Hypercharge do a general attack boost +20% and have it drain MP for both.

WM/GB are issues yes, but its not the only issue support DPS are facing right now. They should play differently, but at the same time, both be equally desired by all party setups.

[Fyce]

Too much jobs in Heavensward got a punishing mechanic.

The problem of most jobs now is that their playstyle isn't as rewarding as they were before. There are few exceptions like SMN where doing a Deathflare or WAR pulling a nice double Fell Cleave and not getting punished for it, are super fun... But other jobs unfortunatly didn't get that treatment.

It doesn't feel good to shoot your bow while under Minuet with BRD. It was meant to make you feel powerful and that your shots had some weight to them, but that's not the case. It's the same pew pew feeling as before, with added cast times. You don't feel that sense of power AND you have to cut yourself from your very mobile playstyle while having to deal with the fact that two oGCD don't fit anymore (making you think that you actually are doing less damage). The parse numbers are correct, but the feeling isn't there.

MCH got his procs so it's a bit different, but the amount of thoughts you have to come up on the fly to maximise your damage output doesn't feel rewarding enough from what I can tell.

That's the same thing with BLM. Getting fire and thunder procs really felt amazing! Now, all you're left are two death sentences ticking in your buff bar (Enochian and Astral Fire), waiting for you to fail somehow in order to completly crush your DPS. Pulling a Fire IV isn't rewarding since it's a part of the rotation you have to do to keep your DPS going. Besides, since you left your "Best AoE job" title to the SMN, that's something less for you to feel good about.


As it was already said, Heavensward didn't felt like your character got awesome new abilities, but skills that makes you feel like you're doing your chores.
That's pretty much why I rolled SMN for this expension.




Editing to answer RiceisNice because I can't use my EU character in my forum profile... so, post limitation is like three. Yay.

Punishing?, you mean going back to your 2.0 rotation? Punishing would be reducing your dps to levels that was lower than what you were doing without the abilities. Except for BRD ( who had barrage changed) and NIN (added positional to AE), no job can possibly do less damage than they were in 2.0 (excluding the stat normalization). You're not being rewarded as much for messing up your new abilties, but you're certainly not punished for doing so. I feel like the word is being used too losely when people are describing something they don't like.

It certainly adds a layer of complexity, but honestly after playing the same job for 2 years, they need something different going into the expansion. SMN appealing to you with DWT and not BLM with enochian is the same deal with people not liking SMN'S DoT oriented dps versus BLM's nukes.

You misunderstood. I'll take Enochian as an example.

Enochian is punishing in a sense that you don't get any extra reward for successfully managing it.
When you were doing your 2.0 BLM rotation, getting a proc was a reward in itself. Not only it was a DPS increase, but it also allowed you to move while still getting a spell thrown at your enemy. Since it was based on RNG, it wasn't really part of your main rotation. It also felt great on a gameplay feedback level.
Enochian doesn't bring any mechanic of the sort. Being able to cast Fire IV isn't a reward, it's a part of your new rotation and not being able to cast it is a DPS loss. I mean, of course Enochian isn't punishing for giving you access to these skills and 5% bonus damage... It's punishing in a way that Greased Lightning is: let the counter tick until it vanishes and you are completly screwed. All your plays from that point will only be tries to make up for that mistake.

This very notion wasn't a part of the job before Heavensward. You had no "losing state". Now, not only you do have a losing state, but you don't have a winning one, just a "regular rotation" one where you are expected to use Enochian and keeping it up because without these Fire IV, your spot as a DPS in the team isn't justified anymore.


Minuet, in it's core mechanic, is different from Enochian since you don't have a death timer ticking, but the very notion of being rewarded with an increased feeling of power isn't there.
People don't enjoy pressing their Minuet shortcut, they do it because they have to in order to maximise their DPS. I personnal liked the proc based gameplay of BLM, but now it's gone and I have to deal with Enochian and keep it up at all cost or I'm done for.

This is what I meant when I used the term "punishing".
These new rotations don't increase your DPS per se, they are the base of your new rotation. Your job is now balanced around these new skills and the DPS you do is accounting these abilities. In short: you don't "win" anything by using them, it's your baseline... but not using them or failing at doing so result in a DPS loss, a punishment.

[RiceisNice]

Too much jobs in Heavensward got a punishing mechanic.

Punishing?, you mean going back to your 2.0 rotation? Punishing would be reducing your dps to levels that was lower than what you were doing without the abilities. Except for BRD ( who had barrage changed) and NIN (added positional to AE), no job can possibly do less damage than they were in 2.0 (excluding the stat normalization). You're not being rewarded as much for messing up your new abilities, but you're certainly not punished for doing so. I feel like the word is being used too loosely when people are describing something they don't like; you literally have nothing to lose from using BotD/enochian (except for maybe your self-esteem or ego) compared to not using it at all, and have everything to gain since it provides consistent buffs toward your skills/damage. Same with DWT in the regard that you need to effectively time your aetherflow usages to align it with TD and x2 fester.

It certainly adds a layer of complexity, but honestly after playing the same job for 2 years, they need something different going into the expansion. SMN appealing to you with DWT and not BLM with enochian is the same deal with people not liking SMN'S DoT oriented dps versus BLM's nukes.

As it was already said, Heavensward didn't felt like your character got awesome new abilities, but skills that makes you feel like you're doing your chores.
That's pretty much why I rolled SMN for this expension.

This is very much a subjective post. I know my share of people who love how BLM plays now, while others don't like how they need to use fire after two fire IVs because they frequently forget to refresh their astral.

Even my perspective about WM adding nothing to BRD is only my subjective opinion, because the way I played BRD in 2.0 was that I never moved when I needed to, thus I'm literally not doing anything new in 3.0.

[kazeandi]

I agree with the "punishment" notion.
Leveling a BLM is great, as you do it with the 2.0 skill set, where every proc is a bonus added to your normal rotation damage. Now a proc doesn't add much, it's something you notice while juggling the timers.

Imagine Enochian was not a skill with a timer, but a proc. It happened and you got the skill ready for activation if you'd do it in X amount of time, or if you activated skills A, B and C in that order, and then it'd run its course. You could make it base off of another proc, for example. Got F3, follow it up with a Sharpcast for a second F3, then you can activate Enochian and do F4s. You could also just cast F3 the slow way 2 times in a row, and if balanced right by SE, this way to do it would not result in a bonus, but in the same damage you'd do anyways. This would be a way to make Enochian a power boost instead of a chore.

There's also never been something interesting going on with Thunder. It's a DOT, sometimes it procs and you can use its big brother with the bigger nuke - and that's it. Imagine it would tick higher the longer you'd keep the DOT alive. Not by MUCH, but a bit more every refresh when it's about to run out. Clip it and it resets - so you have to time it just right. Enough of a tick damage increase to make it worth delaying another spell just so you can cast it in time (with, say, 1.5 sec of a tolerance to account for lags). So, there you have a mechanic that rewards skill.

I too switched back from my BLM to my SMN. I managed to get a decent uptime on the dummy only to then stumble around like an idiot when there's lots of action going on in fights where the enemy actually fights back ^^ or the tank decides to take a walk out of your range with the mob.

I also don't get why you're an AOE magnet as soon as you drop your circle. I had fights in which I could barely use it at all, which always made me feel a huge loss. It's such a great cooldown, why can't I just use it at all in some fights, or only for like 3 seconds before I gotta run out or a giant fireball falls on my head and then keeps on burning exactly as long as the circle would stay? This has nothing to do with skill at all, just makes you feel bad.

There are many such mechanics in the game and I'd gladly take the Bard over the BLM, even if it does less damage or plays a bit more slowly now, just because stuff such as this just isn't gonna happen.

Bard is also rather boring without the chance of bigger hits, but well. Even if it has no reward mechanics, at least it doesn't have any punishments.

[Jonnycbad]

lol at bow mage and gun mage. In FFXI bows and guns had 'casting times', they were called Delay. In FFXIV you just shoot/load instantly. So you aren't 'casting' your shot in FFXIV, think of it as readying/aiming.

[Alahra]

lol at bow mage and gun mage. In FFXI bows and guns had 'casting times', they were called Delay. In FFXIV you just shoot/load instantly. So you aren't 'casting' your shot in FFXIV, think of it as readying/aiming.

That's certainly true, though that's the sort of thing that is better incorporated into class design from level 1. It feels like a loss to the player because you get 51 levels of gameplay without it and then you're suddenly saddled with the need to aim (and the benefits of aiming aren't always readily apparent in terms of overall damage, at least not at level 52). With regard to readying/aiming and aesthetics, I really wish they had designed the casting animation differently, so that it did actually appear that you were training your shot.

[Velhart]

snip

I will admit, it is a awkward transition starting at 52, changing a lot on how the job works. Then again, the only real remedy to it is to offer WM/GB at lower levels or fully integrate it into the job at lv.1. I got use to it quick since I played Marksman Hunter in WoW, but a new player playing BRD up to 52 and everything changes just like that. SE should of eased people into it a little better. Then again, I don't really have a good suggestion how. SE should of made it so you really feel the power of it right at 52 instead of it just being there. You don't feel that power at 52, more like lv.60.

[Alahra]

I will admit, it is a awkward transition starting at 52, changing a lot on how the job works.

Yes, it's the sort of thing that should have been level 30 at the latest (the first job ability, perhaps). But it's too late for that now, so the best that can happen is for WM/GB to be modified to fit in better with existing abilities and the like or for the existing kit to be retooled to better fit WM/GB. BRD definitely needs more work in this department than MCH, but I imagine changes to one would likely result in changes to the other (unless they only really do something to Bloodletter/Rain of Death, anyway).