Four Ways to Die - why the Tank Meta feels "off".

[MPNZ]

TBH, this worries me as I do not want to be a squishy tank. But, IMO, it may be better to just redo the stances and create new status effects.
For EX:

1. New effect "distraction" increases damage output by 20% to the flank and rear positions, and adds 15+% more enmity gain for other party members. The damage increase should be applied in a way that prevents an increase in enmity from the damage bonus. And, maybe make it so that the enmity bonus rises over time to make the player try to use skills with the "attention" status occasionally, but also make it so that the enmity bonus never exceeds 35-45%.
2. New effect "attention" grants 1% enmity gain per bonus points placed into vitality up to 30% for 7-30 seconds, or just remove the enmity buff off of the party.
3. Adjust sword oath to add vit/? to strength and determination, but subtracts 10%+ strength (food and equipment bonuses would be included) and enmity. And, the 20% damage increase still applies, BTW.
4. Shield oath will apply distraction passively and apply attention to certain skills (RoH, Shield lob, shield swipe, circle of thorns, the riot blade combo, flash, or spirits within for examples).

Basically, just make it so that vitality is important for the stances to work properly, or something like that.

[RapBreon]

I see. I'm definitely in the camp of tanks who adheres to the meta but doesn't really like it. But a good player is above all, adaptable, and everyone should keep that in mind I feel.

Fixt that for you bud.

Its hard for people to believe, but I have met healers that are extremely capable and good at taking advantage of every nanoparticle of mitigation/HP that a tank has. I've even raided with a couple... I've seen them more than match and even supersede the DPS deficit from their tanks not being in full STR gear, just by looking at their fflogs. Most healers I feel are, like the rest of us, adapting, and I wonder how many of them just don't know what to do with a tank that trying hard to boost their DPS. I know my current healers are not nearly so comfortable going ham, and every raid night in A3S when I put on a couple of slaying pieces instead of melds, I almost feel a pang of guilt. =/ Just the way it is though, I suppose.

Talented healers have always tried to min-max their DPS in conjunction with their healing - especially in recent years where mana cockblocks have become less of a thing. All the meta is doing is teaching mediocre healers to move outside their comfort zone with in down time.

[Starkbeaumont]

The Downward Filter into Casual Content.

this is imo the worst that comes with the current meta. PPl get mocked for wearing vit accessoires while leveling. or even worse: yesterday I had a tank in full lv35 tank set for cutter's cry. I put up regen and i was able to do some damage as healer. after the first pull he switched into lv38 scalemail set. obviously he took far more damage afterwards, while not even doing more damage himself. and this wasn't even the first time to encounter such behaviour.

anyway good write-up

[Ultimatecalibur]

this is imo the worst that comes with the current meta. PPl get mocked for wearing vit accessoires while leveling. or even worse: yesterday I had a tank in full lv35 tank set for cutter's cry. I put up regen and i was able to do some damage as healer. after the first pull he switched into lv38 scalemail set. obviously he took far more damage afterwards, while not even doing more damage himself. and this wasn't even the first time to encounter such behaviour.

Uh... The level 38 Horn Scale Mail set should be a straight upgrade to the level 35 Heavy Steel set unless he equipped the wrong head (i.e. Vintage Celata instead of a Mythril Elmo). The Iron/Horn/Tortoiseshell Scale Mail sets are all full def/mdef tank sets.

[Starkbeaumont]

Uh... The level 38 Horn Scale Mail set should be a straight upgrade to the level 35 Heavy Steel set unless he equipped the wrong head (i.e. Vintage Celata instead of a Mythril Elmo). The Iron/Horn/Tortoiseshell Scale Mail sets are all full def/mdef tank sets.

weird, now that you mention it. but he took way more dmg... like a lot

[RapBreon]

this is imo the worst that comes with the current meta. PPl get mocked for wearing vit accessoires while leveling. or even worse: yesterday I had a tank in full lv35 tank set for cutter's cry. I put up regen and i was able to do some damage as healer. after the first pull he switched into lv38 scalemail set. obviously he took far more damage afterwards, while not even doing more damage himself. and this wasn't even the first time to encounter such behaviour.

anyway good write-up

Man I gotta say; this must be an NA thing. I've had zero arguments (probably because I can't speak to 80% of them :P) about my gear and/or stance in the JP DF.

[AzureFlare]

If nothing else if I have to see one more case of "Would you tell a healer to go all INT then?" I swear I'm going to get kicked from that party/LS/FC

To be fair, if Cleric Stance were removed and INT became a thing, I'd be more inclined to embrace it than to deny it. Just me, though.

Even though both the VIT camp and the STR camp have diehards in their camps: just rename 'Fending' to 'Provoking', remove the VIT and turn it into STR. Watch tears flow. Of both joy and sadness.

[Litegrace]

Funny thing is, both tank mentalities work for me at different times. There are some fights where I'm glad to be dishing out massive damage as a WAR/DRK and other fights where I would rather be an unbreakable wall as a PLD. I would be perfectly fine with a meta that allowed a choice between them, but right now there isn't much choice.

The current end game content requires high DPS and fending gear just isn't as useful in adding "tankiness" as it should be, removing that choice. I'm still hopeful that SE is working on it though, I can't imagine they would leave tanks as the single anomaly when it comes to gearing and their role in the party.

[Tilgung]

Except it really isn't an anomaly. There's already precedence in at least one previous MMO where gearing to absolute tankiness wasn't the best option. And considering it was this games predecessor, I'm not surprised it wormed itself in here. Intentionally or not.

We've got concrete defensive cooldown rotations and decently planned out healing rotations. The fact of the matter is, we've got near exact amounts of HP necessary to perform as well as needed and going over it is technically a waste of stat points.

[SpookyGhost]

We've got concrete defensive cooldown rotations and decently planned out healing rotations. The fact of the matter is, we've got near exact amounts of HP necessary to perform as well as needed and going over it is technically a waste of stat points.

The problem is less that these exist (as they're bound to), but moreso that the HP threshold for Savage content is easily met... without even using VIT accessories at low ilvl... or tank stance... or even crafted accessories sometimes. It's honestly a bit ridiculous what you can get away with as a tank in 3.0, more than previous raid content even. Maybe it's tuned so loosely because it's the first raid of the expansion? I hope that's the case at least.