Wanderer’s Minuet, Gauss Barrel and Positive Gameplay Additions

[AsahinaMyLove]

I only use Minuett and Gauss if Im about to AoE! Noooothing else.
Those 2 boost-skills are PRETTY Weak for just single targets <,<

I dont understand why people use it 100% all the time =.=

It disables auto atk and gives cast times for skills!

[Alahra]

I dont understand why people use it 100% all the time =.=

When played properly at 60, WM and GB are both DPS increases even on single target. That's why people use them 100% of the time. However, just because they increase DPS doesn't mean they're well designed, of course.

[Zojha]

When played properly at 60, WM and GB are both DPS increases even on single target. That's why people use them 100% of the time. However, just because they increase DPS doesn't mean they're well designed, of course.

Although I personally always feel the urge to turn off GB once I unloaded all my OGCD skills. I'm losing like 20-40 potency every GCD where I only use rotation skills in gauss. The cooldown on turning it off is immensely annoying, but I guess that's the point.

[UnstablePersonality]

Overall Gauss barrel was a mistake because you also lose damage because you cannot attack while dodging anymore..and yes the animation is terrible.

[Alahra]

Although I personally always feel the urge to turn off GB once I unloaded all my OGCD skills. I'm losing like 20-40 potency every GCD where I only use rotation skills in gauss. The cooldown on turning it off is immensely annoying, but I guess that's the point.

100% optimal DPS requires toggling them both to squeeze in extra auto-attacks as far as I'm aware (in between Gauss Round/Empyreal Arrow), yes. That's a level of micro that I don't think many players aspire too (and I'd be willing to bet it's not particularly how the developers balance them either, but I could be wrong about that).

[Welsper59]

What really bothered me about WM is that it felt like it wasn't useful at all until 60. I didn't use it once until 56, and even then I didn't keep it up all the time. So I get a skill that isn't worth using at 52, gets a bit more appealing at 54 but still isn't great, isn't really useful until 56 (and do I love iron jaws on its own), and then a one-time debuff protection spell (with a castbar!) that seems to be very situationally useful at 58.

Then at 60 I get sidewinder, which is actually pretty nice and has a cool animation (and doesn't require WM, which is also great).

So I didn't really start "powering up" as it were until 56. The change from being totally mobile to having cast bars was pretty jarring as well. I just started playing the game a few months ago so I don't know how things were pre 3.0, and I don't mind WM so much now that I've gotten used to it, but it does seem like an odd class design post-50.

Meanwhile my WHM seemed to get a cool and (immediately) useful ability after every 52+ quest. :/

That's because it wasn't overall useful till then. WM requires the full arsenal to be decisively better than auto-attacks and free roam action during dodge mechanics... and there were quite a number of them leveling. IJ, EA, and SW are the only saving grace actions behind WM and, as you mentioned, one can be used without it lol. Let's also not forget that WM was weaker and had a noticeable cast time originally, which made it a stupidly huge burden to use while leveling if you wanted to turn it off and reapply. The ilvl of gear while you level, even if you kept up to date, made it extremely gimped as well by comparison. If the three abilities were given to us alongside WM, it would have stood out a lot more as you level, but with how it is, you'd just be making things worse for yourself until 60 (though technically just harder, not so much worse, from 56-59).

Not all jobs get stuff that is useful early on though. Like NIN doesn't get anything useful at 52, just the smoke bomb ability which... well... let's be honest here, isn't exactly useful in even a decent amount of situations even at 60.

[Alahra]

Not all jobs get stuff that is useful early on though. Like NIN doesn't get anything useful at 52, just the smoke bomb ability which... well... let's be honest here, isn't exactly useful in even a decent amount of situations even at 60.

Smokescreen doesn't penalize the NIN, though. It's the worst of NIN's new abilities, for sure, but it's nowhere near as problematic as WM and GB.

[Welsper59]

Smokescreen doesn't penalize the NIN, though. It's the worst of NIN's new abilities, for sure, but it's nowhere near as problematic as WM and GB.

That was just mentioned in relation to the person I quoted mentioning the WHM ability at 52. Just stating that BRD isn't the only job that gets something that isn't exactly useful for the level you get it... and in that case, not really useful period, unlike WM at 60, regardless of the playstyle change..

[Judge_Xero]

That’s ultimately why Wanderer’s Minuet and Gauss Barrel are so disappointing and frustrating: they have significant drawbacks, and the benefits they offer don’t actually make up for those drawbacks. They’re far more like nerfs to BRD and MCH mobility at level 50 than they are enhancements to their playstyles. New abilities shouldn’t feel like nerfs, and any abilities that do are badly designed.

I’m no game designer and ultimately, I don’t have a huge personal stake in making BRD and MCH’s central abilities play better, as they’re both just occasional diversions for me from my main jobs, so my thoughts on the best way to improve the two classes don’t come from a position of authority. And beyond that, I've been thinking about the two abilities more in a broader sense, regarding what gaining new abilities should feel like in general.

I'm not sure why others have this sense of WM/GB being a damage nerf. Absolutely it's a mobility nerf, more-so with BRD than MCN but as ranged there should be some level of drawback, as you can easily make up damage through swift multi targeting and AOE.

I feel what SE was attempting to accomplish with the stances is increasing BRD/MCN versatility between ST and AOE situation. Where Potency/second is concerned both classes benefit greatly from AOE and multi targeting and that 30% boost is amazing.

Where I feel that they missed the boat was in whether or not using the stances on single target would be a DPS boost or not, since due to oGCD skills it's almost always better to stay in stance whether you are doing ST or AOE.

But, the benefit of GB/WM is so much greater than the drawbacks simply due to the increase to AOE and multi-targeting VS the loss of AA damage

[Alahra]

I'm not sure why others have this sense of WM/GB being a damage nerf. Absolutely it's a mobility nerf, more-so with BRD than MCN but as ranged there should be some level of drawback, as you can easily make up damage through swift multi targeting and AOE.

It is actually a damage nerf on single target at 52. You need Empyreal Arrow to make up for the loss of auto attacks. It's somewhat useful for AoE though, yes, even without the other abilities. The larger the pack, the better it is (though Dusk Vigil and Sohm Al don't have much in the way of comfortable large pulls, though).