The issue nobody wants to address

[Colorful]

snip

Why go through all that unnecessary nonsense when you could potentially just look at the UI and see the numbers everyone is doing in a split second? Maybe I'm just awful and get tunnel visioned too easily, but while I'm trying to output maximum DPS in Bismarck/Ravana, I can't really ignore the fight and start paying attention to how other people are doing unless it's a class I know well (and the only class I know well, or at all, is Ninja).

[Eye_Gore]

paying attention to how other people are doing

Backseat drivers are everywhere. I'm with you though. When I'm tanking an instance, especially larger mobs, don't even have time nor pay attention to what others are doing, so much going in. Maybe its a DPS thing.

[tjw]

...I can't really ignore the fight and start paying attention to how other people are doing unless it's a class I know well (and the only class I know well, or at all, is Ninja).

That's just you then. I KNOW my healer jobs well enough that I CAN afford to pay attention outside of what I am doing and check other people's actions. I don't necessarily click on each person, but as a healer, I am seeing the field often enough that I can capture everyone's movements on the field.

Your first sentence is quite offensive actually. So just because you can't be bothered to up your game and use what the game gives you right now, it's my fault for going beyond and making use of what I can? "Why go through all that nonsense". Yes, why do I try to help my party by doing beyond my role, why should I be anything but a tunnel-visioning DPS intent on getting the highest e-peen numbers. I never approached the subject of a parser or UI or whatever; I refuse to even step foot into that cesspool. But thank you for assuming as much about me.

[Colorful]

snip

But can you honestly say you've memorized every classes animations for their ability? Sure, you could tell if a Ninja is using their Mudras, but that's a small part of their job. What of their rotation? Is your perception incredible enough to tell they're using armour crush instead of reapplying it with Huton (yes I've had people do that), that they're following their positional abilities as best as possible, especially in the case of Monk? Obviously in dungeons this stuff isn't required, and you can easily tell as most bosses are tank and spank with a few AoEs thrown in, but what of EX trials+?

Edit: I don't know why on Earth you'd take offense to that, but people take offense to literally everything on this forum so it's no surprise (and I bet someone would take offense to my saying that too). It's not meant to offend, I'm stating that why go to such lengths when there could be an alternative which is much, much simpler. As for being a obsessed with e-peen, I do try to push the highest numbers but it has nothing to do with e-peen, when I see someone doing more than myself I try to do better and push myself to get better at the game as a sense of accomplishment. It's not my responsibility to watch what other DPS are doing, it's my responsibility to push out as much DPS as I can, while performing mechanics correctly.

[tjw]

But can you honestly say you've mesmerized every classes animations for their ability? Sure, you could tell if a Ninja is using their Mudras, but that's a small part of their job. What of their rotation? Is your perception incredible enough to tell they're using armour crush instead of reapplying it with Huton (yes I've had people do that), that they're following their positional abilities as best as possible, especially in the case of Monk? Obviously in dungeons this stuff isn't required, and you can easily tell as most bosses are tank and spank with a few AoEs thrown in, but what of EX trials+?

Because when I speak of following a DPS' abilities, I mean every single auto-attack, action, and step they take. -rolls eyes-

I can say that I do recognise at least 90% of the abilities used in the game by every class and job. The only ones I'm not very confident to judge based on sight alone are MCH and MNK, but I recognise the sounds of most of their abilities.

Typically I will notice the difference for when NINs apply Mudras (distinctive sounds and animations) and Armour Crush (Huton buff mysteriously increases in timer length on their status bar). If I tab to the enemy and see three Rogue like debuffs on the enemy, I know the NIN is applying DoTs and Dancing Edge. Same with a MNK, I don't need to be 100% focused on them to see if they are using positionals, maybe because they're moving around the enemy and applying the abilities with the right sound effects.

Yes, I do notice these things in 8-man parties, trials and whatnot. It's how I approach my healer job, especially since I need to account for the positions of all party members on the field. I've had practice from 1.X up to now, so I can say that it's something close to muscle memory for me to notice the effects of other people. If you ask me to do it in 24-man raids, I won't be able to. That's way too much for me to keep track of all 24 members and animations flying out everywhere.

I don't know why on Earth you'd take offense to that, but people take offense to literally everything on this forum so it's no surprise (and I bet someone would take offense to my saying that too).

Could have likely been reading your message in a tone that you weren't considering. Taken in another way, your first sentence sounded very condescending, similar to a 'why bother doing anything past the minimum' jab by people in this community who refuse to improve themselves and see no reason to. Regardless, outside of my taken offensive to what was probably just a rhetorical question, my point still stands; there are ways to see how other people are doing right now. I understand as a healer it may be easier than a DPS to keep track of the other DPS in the party; however, since most people here advocate to improve their roles in DPS, I only said the way I go about improving my role as a healer to being a backseat driver (thank you Eye_Gore for this term).

So what exactly are you looking at, applying dots and making sure they're not just sitting there doing nothing? Yeah, that will definitely help a lot when a DPS check is being failed and definitely is identical to a parser in function to finding out who is performing poorly.

Maybe I need to make myself clearer from what angle I'm coming from...

1. I'm not approaching the subject of parsers here. I refuse to even come into the debate of it; my reply was SPECIFICALLY in regards to what a healer can do to see who is messing up with WHAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE NOW. In no way did I say it was similar to a parser figuring out who is doing 0.1 DPS lower than expected.
2. When it comes to fine details (to where we talk DPS numbers making the difference of finishing the encounter in 10 second rather than 20), of course I won't be able to tell you who needs to improve (maybe everyone!), especially if it comes to progression in RELEVANT CONTENT. When it comes to broad details like a DRG not using Chaos Thrust combo, a BLM not using Enochian/BRD not using WM, and other very noticeable flaws, I CAN see who's performing poorly. And guess where I generally see these people? DFs.
3. It's not that either someone does appallingly, or someone does flawlessly. I can see who does mediocre DPS, which can be fixed by improving their rotation with missing skills. I can see anyone who doesn't use buffs but knows their rotation fully.

I repeat; I'm not being anti-parser, or pro-parser. I'm merely explaining what I can do right NOW to address problems related to the party. If an in-game parser does come, good; I'll use it when things get iffy. If not, no problem; I'll merely continue what I'm doing right now. I understand what I do is not for everyone (heck, I didn't say I do it for every encounter; when I'm learning a fight, such as I am now in A3S, I generally pay greater attention to myself that I lessen my attention on other people), nor is it the only end-game healer playstyle out there, but it's how I approach my game.

[OPneedNerfs]

So the answer to helping spot bad dps is to ask healers to git gudder. I'm so done.

[Colorful]

Because when I speak of following a DPS' abilities, I mean every single auto-attack, action, and step they take. -rolls eyes-

So what exactly are you looking at, applying dots and making sure they're not just sitting there doing nothing? Yeah, that will definitely help a lot when a DPS check is being failed and definitely is identical to a parser in function to finding out who is performing poorly.

Edit for your edit: Fair enough, I'll take that you're far more skilled than I am if you're able to do that. I struggle to watch other DPS while performing mechanics and my own rotation, but that does not invalidate a parser. I don't know the high-end healer playstyle of FFXIV, but if there's downtime I'd imagine you're able to keep track of everything, but a DPS that has the shortest (or close to the shortest) GCD, while weaving in OGCD abilities and mudra while trying to deal with the lag that comes with that, on top of performing mechanics it gets a little hazardous. It would be downright impossible in MMOs like WildStar and maybe even in WoW. But regardless of all that, my point was a parser would be a very simple way of going about it. Not only can you measure DPS, you can measure HPS, overhealing, aggro generation, damage taken from avoidable attacks, etc.

[Avidria]

That's just you then. I KNOW my healer jobs well enough that I CAN afford to pay attention outside of what I am doing and check other people's actions. I don't necessarily click on each person, but as a healer, I am seeing the field often enough that I can capture everyone's movements on the field.
...

As a dps, my job is to dps and to follow mechanics (and since I'm a bard, I'm also watching people's mana and tp and throwing out foe req if we've got mages). I'm watching the boss, the boss' cast bars, my own rotation, my buffs, and my cooldowns. I like to think I know my job as a bard pretty well, but I still don't have the time to worry about whether or not someone else is doing their rotation properly.
The only time I notice that they aren't is when A) things are dying unusually slowly or B) they do something that's obviously wrong (standing in AoE, spamming the same ability over and over, never using any cooldowns, etc.). I could probably get away with watching everyone's buffs and dots etc., but that's not my job and frankly, it shouldn't be.

If someone isn't doing their job, there should be an easier way to hold them accountable for that than to watch what they're doing on top of doing my own job.

[MentheusDreyar]

So the answer to helping spot bad dps is to ask healers to git gudder. I'm so done.

Yeah didn't you know? Apparently healers are meant to be complete masters of the game where we have to juggle healing and DPS and mechanics while memorising every attack animation and class rotation in the game while making no mistakes what so ever or we're told to "git gud" by underperforming players before being kicked.

Honestly the longer the argument goes on the more stupid and outlandish these examples and reasons become by the anti parser crowd.

[Ryel]

Because when I speak of following a DPS' abilities, I mean every single auto-attack, action, and step they take. -rolls eyes-

I can say that I do recognize at least 90% of the abilities used in the game by every class and job. The only ones I'm not very confident to judge based on sight alone are MCH and MNK, but I recognise the sounds of most of their abilities.

Typically I will notice the difference for when NINs apply Mudras (distinctive sounds and animations) and Armour Crush (Huton buff mysteriously increases in timer length on their status bar). If I tab to the enemy and see three Rogue like debuffs on the enemy, I know the NIN is applying DoTs and Dancing Edge. Same with a MNK, I don't need to be 100% focused on them to see if they are using positionals, maybe because they're moving around the enemy and applying the abilities with the right sound effects.

Yes, I do notice these things in 8-man parties, trials and whatnot. It's how I approach my healer job, especially since I need to account for the positions of all party members on the field. I've had practice from 1.X up to now, so I can say that it's something close to muscle memory for me to notice the effects of other people. If you ask me to do it in 24-man raids, I won't be able to. That's way too much for me to keep track of all 24 members and animations flying out everywhere.

I won't question your ability, i will however question your accuracy and consistency of doing so.

Can you 100% with confidence say that you are able to spot without a doubt out of 4 DPS in an 8 man party which one isn't carrying their own weight in 100% of all cases where your party is in an encounter that has a DPS check? Especially in case where you have of multiples of the same types of DPS jobs? Additionally are you able to quantify and give feedback to each one of those individual DPS based on their jobs/classes/playstles as to what areas they may need to improve upon and where exactly the fault lies in their specific class rotations?

And all this mind you are able to with no negative repercussions to your own play, that is assuming that you are playing at the highest level capable for your class given that you are situationally aware enough to accurately and consistently gauge the performance of the 7 other players in party with you with zero margin for error.

As tone is not always apparent with text, this is a genuine question based on the comments you have made.

EDIT: This was added just as or slightly after i posted so i'll respond.

Maybe I need to make myself clearer from what angle I'm coming from...

1. I'm not approaching the subject of parsers here. I refuse to even come into the debate of it; my reply was SPECIFICALLY in regards to what a healer can do to see who is messing up with WHAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE NOW. In no way did I say it was similar to a parser figuring out who is doing 0.1 DPS lower than expected.

2. When it comes to fine details (to where we talk DPS numbers making the difference of finishing the encounter in 10 second rather than 20), of course I won't be able to tell you who needs to improve (maybe everyone!), especially if it comes to progression in RELEVANT CONTENT. When it comes to broad details like a DRG not using Chaos Thrust combo, a BLM not using Enochian/BRD not using WM, and other very noticeable flaws, I CAN see who's performing poorly. And guess where I generally see these people? DFs.

3. It's not that either someone does appallingly, or someone does flawlessly. I can see who does mediocre DPS, which can be fixed by improving their rotation with missing skills. I can see anyone who doesn't use buffs but knows their rotation fully.

I repeat; I'm not being anti-parser, or pro-parser. I'm merely explaining what I can do right NOW to address problems related to the party. If an in-game parser does come, good; I'll use it when things get iffy. If not, no problem; I'll merely continue what I'm doing right now. I understand what I do is not for everyone (heck, I didn't say I do it for every encounter; when I'm learning a fight, such as I am now in A3S, I generally pay greater attention to myself that I lessen my attention on other people), nor is it the only end-game healer playstyle out there, but it's how I approach my game.

Practicality and consistency are the two major things here.

Saying that sometimes you're able to spot which DPS may or may not be under-performing (with no accurate way to verify mind you) is all well and good until it matters, at which point you have zero way of providing any meaningful feedback or assessment. saying to the random DPS in ex roulette "are you sure you're doing your rotation? I didnt hear you pop armor crush" isn't really going to hold any water in any realistic scenario.

Let me make it clear that I'm not trying to jump on you here, while the ability to see and guesstimate these things is great, your comments don't lend much in the way of credibility to the subject at hand. due to the not so practical nature of a DPS basically needing someone else to keep an eye on them, and the lack of any meaningful consistency.