The issue nobody wants to address

[Whiteroom]

And in those cases, the fault lies with the person ignoring the advice. I'm certainly not arguing that. But more often than not (in my experience), it's the 'advice-giver' who starts out rudely.
There's a huge difference between, "Umm, hey, we are supposed to take the ball to that net down there and score," and "Hey, idiot, get the ****ing ball to the goal already, L2P noob!"
In the first case, a parser might help in a few cases, while in other cases the person would just continue to ignore advice given until they were kicked from the team/party. In the second case, a parser wouldn't help once the argument is already started.

Tbh, by the time a player reaches level 60, its no surprise people might be a little exasperated with them for not playing well. Also, if the issue weren't so prevalent, maybe people would be more forgiving.

The simple fact is, the game relies almost exclusively on dps for encounters, and there is no way for a player or group to have a metric of their dps. Do you not think thats even a little strange sounding?

[Colorful]

That's the thing I am interested in - convenience. There is also reason why so many tanks and healers do not play with randoms - out of convenience.

I don't know where you got the idea that tanks and healers don't play with randoms, but they do. Almost every FC member that's a tank or healer does DREX on the daily, even when one of them is a dedicated crafter. Every friend of mine who is a tank or a healer (or both) has and will always use DF. As I said, it's incredibly convenient so "Why not?". There may be a few who do not use the Duty Finder, but that applies to all roles, DPS included. The problem being that there isn't enough tanks or too many DPS. I couldn't care less though early on. As for the later levels, DREX pops within 5 minutes and Alexander usually less than 5 during primetime as a DPS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wonder what would happen if the entire playerbase started putting in as much effort as the average df person and nothing would ever be cleared again.

There are times where I get the urge to do that myself when I get a DPS doing sub 600 in almost full i200 gear, and a Warrior doing 300 or less DPS and not applying Storm's Eye either (or applying it at random). I'd be punishing myself too, so I'd rather not. But it is funny the people who go in with "It's Duty Finder, I do what I want" mentality, imagine if everyone shared that mindset? I do feel bad for the Healers that can end up with both a bad tank and two bad DPS. =l

[Noxifer]

Tbh, by the time a player reaches level 60, its no surprise people might be a little exasperated with them for not playing well. Also, if the issue weren't so prevalent, maybe people would be more forgiving.

The simple fact is, the game relies almost exclusively on dps for encounters, and there is no way for a player or group to have a metric of their dps. Do you not think thats even a little strange sounding?

If only this behaviour wasn't also directed against people still levelling and learning the game, I'd agree with you completely.

I've never said I'm against parsers, but it does worry me a little that it might put more focus on competing against your team members instead of cooperating with them to take down the boss in front of you. Especially since I'm a bit leery when it comes to new features in FFXIV... *coughhuntscough*

(I'm also not that happy about this increased focus on DPS checks... I'd much prefer difficulty to be raised through mechanics than through sheer DPS.)

[MentheusDreyar]

But someone still levelling their first class and doing, say, Toto-rak, hasn't been playing for that many hours, yet some people in DF seem to hold them to the same standard as a level 50+ player. Someone might have a level 50 healer, but are picking up their first tank or dps class -- or vice versa. People might have taken a long hiatus from the game and are just returning and still rusty. The point of my analogy (and pretty much the entire post I made) was basically, "People have different skill levels, and trying to force them all to operate at the same level is impossible, and heaping abuse on those who can't is pointless -- and likely to get you in trouble if it gets reported."

Oh come on! You know full well no one here is on about abusing new players in low lv dungeons, if you are seriously trying to use that as an argument i question your intelligence and contribution to this thread. It shouldn't need to be said we are talking about the lv 50+ section of the game! Even a bad player can learn how to play in those 50 lv's the games basic rotations are clearly labelled for those who care to even read their tooltips.

We expect players to perform the appropriate amount based on their current level if you are lv 60 and doing lv 50 damage you are a clear detriment to whatever content you are joining because the game is designed to be completed at the appropriate amount of performance excepted at that level and that item level! The game demands certain levels of performance from players, not just us players!

The point is by that point in the game there is no legitimate reason to be playing so bad short of a physical disability, even then i know a few players who can perform perfectly within acceptable levels with a disability.

[Archaell]

...

I did say many, not all of them. It's great that your friends are good enough to use DF. There probably aren't that many who do not use it - they just use it as DPS role. My point was focused more towards bad and good players. If you are good tank or healer, after week of using PF instead of DF, you should have full friend list of dps who would do content with you, and whose performance would match your own. Combined with longer lasting relationships, players would then be able to form premades, or join DF with at least few new dps friends, which would decrease the amount of "free" tanks and healers in DF. I admit, it is my assumption, but that's what experiments are for - to prove or disprove assumptions.

[Whiteroom]

If only this behaviour wasn't also directed against people still levelling and learning the game, I'd agree with you completely.

I've never said I'm against parsers, but it does worry me a little that it might put more focus on competing against your team members instead of cooperating with them to take down the boss in front of you. Especially since I'm a bit leery when it comes to new features in FFXIV... *coughhuntscough*

(I'm also not that happy about this increased focus on DPS checks... I'd much prefer difficulty to be raised through mechanics than through sheer DPS.)

I would counter that these issues already exist, regardless of parser use. And that the parser is not the cause of them. When you get down to it, people already abuse people, is it really that bad if they can add a number to that abuse, while on the flip side, people who are unaware of their poor performance, or just how poor it is, will have the ability to see roughly where they stand.

[Archaell]

I would contend that these issues already exist, regardless of parser use. And that the parser is not the cause of them. When you get down to it, people already abuse people, is it really that bad if they can add a number to that abuse, while on the flip side, people who are unaware of their poor performance, or just how poor it is, will have the ability to see roughly where they stand.

This. One of the reasons for all the hate parsers get is that it would make it difficult to stay ignorant - ignorant to one's own performance and ignorant to performance of other players. People would feel bad about their "numbers" being a lot worse than numbers of somebody else. Players would demand overal standard to be raised. DPS role would no longer be without responsibilities. I bet part of player base is scared of responsibility due to their bad experience while sucking at tanking/healing - let's face it, the more somebody sucks the more probable it is that they would encounter players with expectations and attitude. Now dps role is free of this. They can enjoy the ride no matter their performance. It is hardly surprising that not everyone is willing to give up this privilege.

Right now healing and tanking has too much responsibility in comparison to dpsing. With introduction of parser we may see things like queue times decreasing, because there are players who do poor job when it comes to dpsing, but would be good tanks/healers. Right now the difference in responsibility is putting additional pressure on the tanking/healing roles which discourages players from doing them, when the option to play "blame safe" dps role is available.

[RickXRolled]

Excuse me? What is your problem here? As it happens my son - who plays and enjoys FFXIV greatly - is quite impaired, he's autistic (high function), severely ADD and has major fine motor skill issues - among other impairments to his capability. So I know exactly what I am talking about and I'll happily represent his interests and those in the same boat as him. I think you should be taking back your nasty little comment and perhaps rethink your attitude.

I'm autistic(high function) and I can do atleast 90% of my class's maximum potential across 5 jobs and do end game raiding. I'm also very pro parser and hate all these lazy scrubs I've been carrying since 2.0.

[Hayward]

I wonder what would happen if the entire playerbase started putting in as much effort as the average df person and nothing would ever be cleared again.

You can have plenty of seats with that nonsense. Unless you've done DF groups with EVERYONE in your data center, that statement is about as asinine and insulting as it gets.

You and others on these forums need to stop acting as if you're the only ones who know this game inside-out.

[RickXRolled]

I've noticed multiple problems when I pay attention to under performing players.

1. They press buttons as if they have a 5-10s gcd.
2. They don't know what weaving is.(saw a dragoon use power surge+jump+spineshatter+dragonfiredive back to back without touching a single gcd.
3. Don't even know what their abillities do and how they affect one another(ice mages)
4. Fail to use Dots and maintain them.(probably assume they are not worth using)
5. Unnecessary movements.(positionals and hazard zone avoidance)
6. Failure to move at all.(Positionals and hazard zone avoidance)
7. Abillity to make good judgment.(Using touch of death on a mob with 5% hp that is being focused down.)
8. Netflix.(I wish I was joking)