The issue nobody wants to address

[Archaell]

Glass half empty, or glass half full.

50% of water and 50% of air. You can't ignore the air.

Do you know what would make you believe it? ... Parser. It is easy to ignore something that you can't see. Grab your tank and time your dungeon runs. Tank few instances exactly the same way. Then compare the results. Sooner or later you will get extremely fast run and extremely slow run. The disparity is quite astonishing.

[OPneedNerfs]

FFXIV: A game where bads worry about toxicity yet refuse to improve themselves so it doesn't happen.

[dank1]

The principle is the same.


Actually now, the standard is set by SE, SE decides what constitutes harassment or abuse. I if someone abuses parser data and causes a problem for another player, they may be reported and SE may take action against them. It's their rule set that matters, not the kangaroo court of the online community and a 'community standard' agreed by one group, but not others.

And what makes you sure SE would take action against the player who kicks the player who refused to be cooperative? Realistically speaking I'm sure they rarely take action unless it's an extreme harassment case. Not to mention the fact that refusing to be cooperative with a group and help correct an issue by providing parser info can be viewed as harassment in and of itself.

Seeing as this situation already happens, non performing players do get kicked nowadays and I've NEVER heard of anyone getting penalized for kicking an unwilling player why would the situation change later?
So yes the standards and community rules in game are set by the players regardless of what you think, SE would be more of the judge deciding whether a report goes into harassment/cheating territory and also an enforcer when they believe said report qualifies as harassment/cheating.

Again I'll stand by my point and keep kicking lazy, willfully non-performing players, I'm still still waiting for my ban, but I doubt SE has a rule to ban players who kick those harassing their party by purposely not performing.

[Colorful]

So I was in a dungeon today, wondering why we were going so slow so I opened up an... Excel sheet and did some math. Yeah, this is why we need parsers. I bet he doesn't even know how to do the amazing maths required to attain this information (I bet he doesn't know that he's doing poorly)!

[Malevicton]

So I was in a dungeon today, wondering why we were going so slow so I opened up an... Excel sheet and did some math. Yeah, this is why we need parsers. I bet he doesn't even know how to do the amazing maths required to attain this information (I bet he doesn't know that he's doing poorly)!

I'm all for parsers, but that person shouldn't need one to know they're doing badly. That's low for 2.0, a lot of jobs could compete against that guy with just auto attacks.

[Colorful]

I'm all for parsers, but that person shouldn't need one to know they're doing badly. That's low for 2.0, a lot of jobs could compete against that guy with just auto attacks.

I suppose so, I tried Spinning Edge + Huton + Internal Release on a dummy for 2 minutes and managed over 600. I saw that he was auto attacking and casting straight shot at the very least. I made sure my... excel sheet was set up properly too. Double checked with an FC mate.

[KeluBehemoth]

Oh my god will you marry me. I don't care that we're both men playing as women in a video game.

Finally somebody says it.

Its absolutely unbelievable.

Ive been in groups where people don't know mechanics, don't know their rotation and sit there like "I'm so good" "I know... you're so good" "were so good together" and proceed to circle jerk each other while hating on the rest of the party that actually know what they're doing. Initiating vote kicks or ganging up on the one guy who actually speaks up and knows what they're talking about. Like... I can't tell if these people know eachother IRL sometimes or all the baddies just rub one out together and pat themselves on the back. But its like %50 of the community.

Then some of them are like "Don't harsh on him... we only wiped 5 times".

Like today in Ravana EX. The BLM used the LB "because the melee didn't at Swift Liberation". Well... I'm sorry, but this group already wiped, your LB is useless and I prefer to save it because 90% of the PF groups I am in fail this instance anyways, having healer LB3 on hand is a good safe guard and... quite frankly... I don't give a shit about clearing smoothly or quickly as long as we 1 shot it. Because out of 30 clears, every single time that LB has been used on Swift Lib its been a wipe.

Of course, we nearly wiped and needed the healer LB3, the tank popped living dead and took off the remaining %1.

I mean, its not like the melee could have used the LB at a point when... I dunno, it was safe to do so and would 1 shot the boss. %9?

But no... in his mind this scrub is justified in doing %1 damage and nearly wiping the raid and then shit talking people about HIS screw up (not to mention the LB didn't even hit because Ravana flew into the air)

[Azazua_azura]

ima get heat for this but i'm sickl and tired of this stupid petty bs.

I'm a gamer who absolutely hates paersers. I find such user (not prefesional as in the mmo company made it) application to be inaccurate and inconsistent, and just used as a tool to rag on other players.
I find it hard to believe this hive mind of mmo game base find such a program to be fundimental if not required to play a game.

Here is some back story on why, I used to play dcuo on the ps3. They added a ingame parser system for content, it would measure everything out and rate you. You can see this at any time during said content. What happen was randomsa would become so foul mouth over mic it ant funny, they would rag on each other for you doing the best. People did not work together and pretty much bum rush to try and stay on top as number 1 in the run.

I also took notice how easy it was to manipulate, and in a few bits of content me as a healer out dps and out cured everyone in my group. Not by playing my class well but simply making sure i attacked first grouped up most of the mobs and use my aoe, then after switch from dps to healer to cure everyone with my aoe cure.

Having the most damage does not mean you play are class well, and inbefore people say "but the dps checks" SE been doing mobs with enrage timers and dps checks in most final fantasy games. Need to level up, gear up, use any buff or benefit to help, and using your skills well timed and buffs well timed.

Also it isn't hard to check ur damage output, simply seeing how much of the mobs/boss hp you take out all you need to know in my opinion, thats how i judge my performance and aim to improve if I see my attacks not taking a decent amount of damage i adjust my gear and timing on my buffs, and adjust my skills on my hotbar to be more fluid and comfortable.

As for rotations, in most cases they are pretty much spelled out for you, it didn't takwe a parser to figure it out. Also whats wrong with simply trial and error? ralking amounts your friends on how they play? Why does everything need to be a "the parser figured it out"

My final thing, STOP backseat playing other peoples characters. It is rude, inconsiderate and just plain snobby. You have no idea what the person us doing, how the persons hotbar is set up, what the person net connection is or where they live. The more time you spend on whatching other pleople the less time you spend doing your role. If things go south don't blame any one player, talk on how the wipe happen and what the group as a whole can do to improve.

[Solarra]

STOP backseat playing other peoples characters. It is rude, inconsiderate and just plain snobby. You have no idea what the person us doing, how the persons hotbar is set up, what the person net connection is or where they live. The more time you spend on whatching other pleople the less time you spend doing your role. If things go south don't blame any one player, talk on how the wipe happen and what the group as a whole can do to improve.

Thank you so much for injecting some common sense into this debate (and Kosmos992k too). I've been following this thread for a while and I've been absolutely appalled by the attitude some of the posters have towards other players.

I'm all for Square giving us a personal parser because that would help players who are interested in improving their own performance.
If a player isn't interested in improving then there is nothing anyone can do to change that; confronting them with the figures is not going to produce a miraculous improvement.

As to being allowed to use the figures produced by a parser to 'punish' bad players for not performing to other people's standards... Seriously!?!
I find it hard to believe anyone has such an inflated sense of their own importance that such a proposition seems reasonable.

If a group wish to use a parser Square have already said they don't mind as long as users are discrete. That seems fair enough.

[Pells]

... essentially parser proponents are arguing that we should abrogate our rights to decline parsing in favor of *their* interests.

Except parsing is not a right. It is a privilege.