Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[Brian_]

Here is what people don't understand.

Job design is about overall balance.

Yes, WAR does not get immediate mitigation purely from stance dancing to Defiance.

That's irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. Why? Because Defiance doesn't exist in a vacuum. Neither does Deliverance. If you want to view WAR stances in a vacuum, then you should also look at stuff like Inner Beast, Fell Cleave, Decimate, Equilibrium, etc. in a vacuum. Defiance might be worse than Shield Oath when removed from its context. But, if you view IB, FC, Decimate, etc. with the same standards, WAR skills would deserve to be nerfed into the ground because they are so much better than what PLD and DRK have.

The point is that Defiance and Deliverance have to be weaker because you have to factor in the value of stacks and stances allowing otherwise completely overpowered skills like IB, FC, Decimate, etc. to exist. There might not be an upfront gain in mitigation when activating Defiance, but you gain access to a number of incredibly strong skills that only exist because of your weaker stance. That's a persistent strength of the stance just like how mitigation is a persistent strength of Grit and Shield Oath. Imagine PLDs / DRKs with IB, FC, and Equilibrium. It would be ludicrous.

[ArdorGrey]

Here is what people don't understand.

Job design is about overall balance.

Yes, WAR does not get immediate mitigation purely from stance dancing to Defiance.

That's irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. Why? Because Defiance doesn't exist in a vacuum. Neither does Deliverance.

Blows my mind how someone can say something like this and use it as an argument for why drk and pld should have on demand toggleable pseudo sentinel.

[SpookyGhost]

Blows my mind how someone can say something like this and use it as an argument for why drk and pld should have on demand toggleable pseudo sentinel.

Ah, but you see, you're looking at DRK and PLD in a vacuum. What you need to do is look at them in a toaster, then you'll see where the balance comes into play.

[Cidolfas86]

Ah, but you see, you're looking at DRK and PLD in a vacuum. What you need to do is look at them in a toaster, then you'll see where the balance comes into play.

Everyone knows you look at them in an oven. Toaster scrubs should go back to WoW.

I didn't know 20% mitigation = 40% mitigation but I'm sure this makes sense to you, somehow. WARs can cry about how PLD and DRK don't deserve off-gcd stance dancing when they stop being the best tank in the game by an absolutely ridiculous margin. You know what blows my mind? That the physical class with the absolute lowest TP consumption in single target of all was given pseudo invigorate when they absolutely had no need for it, while the other tanks have to cry for goad 3 minutes into a fight.

Eh, even during the 50 cap era I could still run dry on WAR if my Pacify was getting regularly cleansed and I was using IB regularly. It's nowhere near as fast as DRK, and not quite as fast as PLD, but it could happen. Not to mention WAR is the only one of the 3 that uses TP for AoE threat so its not entirely undeserved that they got it.

However it wouldn't hurt to see something similar on the other 2. They could just as easily apply a TP regen or TP save buff to Tempered Will. That would instantly make it shoot up high on the useful ability list. Add equivalent for DRK outside of Blood Weapon that can be used as MT-boom problem solved. DRK especially needs help in this field because there is no "Shield Swipe" equivalent to stem the tide as MT.

[Freyyy]

Add equivalent for DRK outside of Blood Weapon that can be used as MT-boom problem solved. DRK especially needs help in this field because there is no "Shield Swipe" equivalent to stem the tide as MT.

I think Sole Survivor may be a good candidate for such an addition. It already restores both HP and MP, why not TP after all. The CD and requirement for it to work would make it completely balanced.

[ArdorGrey]

Ah, but you see, you're looking at DRK and PLD in a vacuum. What you need to do is look at them in a toaster, then you'll see where the balance comes into play.

It all makes sense now, I've seen the light!

[Freyyy]

Blows my mind how someone can say something like this and use it as an argument for why drk and pld should have on demand toggleable pseudo sentinel.

It's already on demand toggleable since it's on the GCD and it's far from being as strong as Sentinel. Making it oGCD wouldn't change anything about that, it would just make it more smooth and actually enjoyable to do.

But I personally ask to atleast make Grit/Oaths not breaking combos anymore. That's for me the real issue, the real reason why it's so clunky.

[NFaelivrin]

Blows my mind how someone can say something like this and use it as an argument for why drk and pld should have on demand toggleable pseudo sentinel.

I didn't know 20% mitigation = 40% mitigation but I'm sure this makes sense to you, somehow. WARs can cry about how PLD and DRK don't deserve off-gcd stance dancing when they stop being the best tank in the game by an absolutely ridiculous margin. You know what blows my mind? That the physical class with the absolute lowest TP consumption in single target of all was given pseudo invigorate when they absolutely had no need for it, while the other tanks have to cry for goad 3 minutes into a fight.