Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[Teiren]

Coincidentally, I've come up with half your fixes on my own and been thinking about them since DRK and Dark Dance came into play, but sadly they're mostly technical game system changes. As such I don't have hope they'll ever be fixed, which is just sad. For reference, I mean really stupidly obvious things that are ridiculous for having not been implemented from the start like:

-Every single incoming attack on a player should be parryable/blockable from every single side but the rear (Not exactly what you said, I know)
-Every single enemy should be Blindable and almost every targeted attack should be able to miss/be dodged, starting at a 0% floor (Obviously one-off, powerful attacks have to 100% hit or survival would feel too random)
-Only weaponskills part of combos, and nothing else, should ever break a combo (For tanks only)
-Abilities should always be affected by healing modifiers (I'd even be okay with Mantra+Second Wind on a Monk, the recast times are more than prohibitive enough)

The rest of what you said is more about game design than game systems, so I won't bother going into that but to say that I agree with all of it wholeheartedly except one thing. I respectfully disagree that Oaths/Grit should be on the GCD. Even if they were affected by Skill Speed and didn't break combos, it shouldn't feel like an awkwardly punishing thing to switch to or from tanking as a PLD/DRK. In fact, in my opinion it's a completely stupid and archaic thing for "tank stances" to even directly reduce damage at all. They should simply limit damage output through other methods. However, that's another topic. :P

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

I respectfully disagree that Oaths/Grit should be on the GCD. Even if they were affected by Skill Speed and didn't break combos, it shouldn't feel like an awkwardly punishing thing to switch to or from tanking as a PLD/DRK. In fact, in my opinion it's a completely stupid and archaic thing for "tank stances" to even directly reduce damage at all. However, that's another topic. :P

Unless SE buffs Defiance to heal the 20% HP upon activation, you will not see Shield Oath/Grit coming off the GCD. 20% at will toggle-able mitigation would be extremely powerful given the scripted nature of FF14.

But I do aggre that the concept behind "tank stance" is stupid. IMO your emnity modifiers should be applied to your "tank stance" or the system that WAR has in which stance grants you access to defensive or offensive CDs.

[Teiren]

I thought WAR had an unfair advantage with Defiance being an Ability instead of a Spell, but I don't have as much experience tanking as WAR, so I guess I'm not considering how much of a hit the missing 25% HP can be. I mean, Defiance still immediately grants +20% healing received, but true, you would be in a considerably more vulnerable state the moment you switch to Defiance compared to a theoretical PLD/DRK with an off-GCD Shield Oath/Grit. I see your point. I'm going to guess this is why WoW has Bear Form also instantly adjust your current HP at the same it increases max HP.

[Freyyy]

Unless SE buffs Defiance to heal the 20% HP upon activation, you will not see Shield Oath/Grit coming off the GCD. 20% at will toggle-able mitigation would be extremely powerful given the scripted nature of FF14.

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB. It's totally 20% at will toggle-able mitigation. And it does damage + ignores the Defiance penalty, where the other tanks lose 1 damage GCD to activate their stance on top of breaking combos, costing MP, and not being affected by SS. That's a lot of downsides. Oh and, the WAR still gets the convo-like effect of Defiance instantly. So they at least get half of their tanking stance instantly. I think that the fact that Defiance doesn't heal for the max HP it grants is highly overrated as a "con" and people are using it way too much as an argument where it's not even the case really.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB. It's totally 20% at will toggle-able mitigation. And it does damage + ignores the Defiance penalty, where the other tanks lose 1 damage GCD to activate their stance on top of breaking combos, costing MP, and not being affected by SS. That's a lot of downsides. Oh and, the WAR still gets the convo-like effect of Defiance instantly. So they at least get half of their tanking stance instantly. I think that the fact that Defiance doesn't heal for the max HP it grants is highly overrated as a "con" and people are using it way too much as an argument where it's not even the case really.

Wait wait wait... Are you trying to imply that: Waiting 17 seconds to build stacks, blowing a CD, losing DPS by using said CD, and having the healing increase brought about by Defience justifies having an oGCD instant ability to mitigate 20% damage? LMFAO with your thought process I could argue that Shadow Skin + dropping Grit is just fine and that DrK does not (and it doesn't) need Grit to be oGCD.

Bro.....just ugh. Now I'm all for Sword Oath being oGCD... That really needs to happen.

[NFaelivrin]

Not getting your max HP instantly on WAR when swapping to defiance could be considered a fair reason to not make other tank stances off-gcd if WAR wasn't the best tank in the entire game already by a huge margin.

[Freyyy]

Are you trying to imply that: Waiting 17 seconds to build stacks, blowing a CD, losing DPS by using said CD, and having the healing increase brought about by Defience justifies having an oGCD instant ability to mitigate 20% damage? LMFAO with your thought process I could argue that Shadow Skin + dropping Grit is just fine and that DrK does not (and it doesn't) need Grit to be oGCD.

Shadowskin has a little bit more than 17 seconds CD. Your comparison is invalid. The DPS loss of using IB instead of a Fell Cleave is I believe inferior to the DPS loss of using a GCD not hitting at all. Plus, you have to switch only after finishing a combo, where WAR can do it at any time and it even converts stacks. Really. Just the fact of not getting instantly the HP that Defiance brings is not enough of a con compared to what the other stances have (breaking combos, being on GCD, costing MP, being tied to spell speed). If you absolutely don't want Grit/Oaths to be oGCD, please at least make them not break combos anymore.

[SpookyGhost]

Sheltron and DA + DM are both usable in SwO/out of Grit. Just throwing that out there.

[eagledorf]

The DPS loss of using IB instead of a Fell Cleave is I believe inferior to the DPS loss of using a GCD not hitting at all. [snip] Just the fact of not getting instantly the HP that Defiance brings is not enough of a con compared to what the other stances have (breaking combos, being on GCD, costing MP, being tied to spell speed). If you absolutely don't want Grit/Oaths to be oGCD, please at least make them not break combos anymore.

Skipping a FC for an IB means you lose (500*1.05)-300 so 225 potency, which is almost exactly what a PLD loses for one lost GCD assuming they didn't lose Goring Blade or have to cancel a combo (230). Of course PLD loses 2 GCD stance dancing...

That said, a WAR can swap in early to get topped off since Defiance has a 10s cooldown anyway and, as you point out, they can swap in whenever without worrying about their combos so the mechanics as they're currently designed still strongly favors WAR for stance-dancing.

[Launched]

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB.

So what you're saying is WAR needs to use Defiance AND a GCD to get the full effect of their tank stance instantly? Guess it's no different from Shield Oath/Grit then.