Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[Freyyy]

Unless SE buffs Defiance to heal the 20% HP upon activation, you will not see Shield Oath/Grit coming off the GCD. 20% at will toggle-able mitigation would be extremely powerful given the scripted nature of FF14.

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB. It's totally 20% at will toggle-able mitigation. And it does damage + ignores the Defiance penalty, where the other tanks lose 1 damage GCD to activate their stance on top of breaking combos, costing MP, and not being affected by SS. That's a lot of downsides. Oh and, the WAR still gets the convo-like effect of Defiance instantly. So they at least get half of their tanking stance instantly. I think that the fact that Defiance doesn't heal for the max HP it grants is highly overrated as a "con" and people are using it way too much as an argument where it's not even the case really.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB. It's totally 20% at will toggle-able mitigation. And it does damage + ignores the Defiance penalty, where the other tanks lose 1 damage GCD to activate their stance on top of breaking combos, costing MP, and not being affected by SS. That's a lot of downsides. Oh and, the WAR still gets the convo-like effect of Defiance instantly. So they at least get half of their tanking stance instantly. I think that the fact that Defiance doesn't heal for the max HP it grants is highly overrated as a "con" and people are using it way too much as an argument where it's not even the case really.

Wait wait wait... Are you trying to imply that: Waiting 17 seconds to build stacks, blowing a CD, losing DPS by using said CD, and having the healing increase brought about by Defience justifies having an oGCD instant ability to mitigate 20% damage? LMFAO with your thought process I could argue that Shadow Skin + dropping Grit is just fine and that DrK does not (and it doesn't) need Grit to be oGCD.

Bro.....just ugh. Now I'm all for Sword Oath being oGCD... That really needs to happen.

[Freyyy]

Are you trying to imply that: Waiting 17 seconds to build stacks, blowing a CD, losing DPS by using said CD, and having the healing increase brought about by Defience justifies having an oGCD instant ability to mitigate 20% damage? LMFAO with your thought process I could argue that Shadow Skin + dropping Grit is just fine and that DrK does not (and it doesn't) need Grit to be oGCD.

Shadowskin has a little bit more than 17 seconds CD. Your comparison is invalid. The DPS loss of using IB instead of a Fell Cleave is I believe inferior to the DPS loss of using a GCD not hitting at all. Plus, you have to switch only after finishing a combo, where WAR can do it at any time and it even converts stacks. Really. Just the fact of not getting instantly the HP that Defiance brings is not enough of a con compared to what the other stances have (breaking combos, being on GCD, costing MP, being tied to spell speed). If you absolutely don't want Grit/Oaths to be oGCD, please at least make them not break combos anymore.

[eagledorf]

The DPS loss of using IB instead of a Fell Cleave is I believe inferior to the DPS loss of using a GCD not hitting at all. [snip] Just the fact of not getting instantly the HP that Defiance brings is not enough of a con compared to what the other stances have (breaking combos, being on GCD, costing MP, being tied to spell speed). If you absolutely don't want Grit/Oaths to be oGCD, please at least make them not break combos anymore.

Skipping a FC for an IB means you lose (500*1.05)-300 so 225 potency, which is almost exactly what a PLD loses for one lost GCD assuming they didn't lose Goring Blade or have to cancel a combo (230). Of course PLD loses 2 GCD stance dancing...

That said, a WAR can swap in early to get topped off since Defiance has a 10s cooldown anyway and, as you point out, they can swap in whenever without worrying about their combos so the mechanics as they're currently designed still strongly favors WAR for stance-dancing.

[Launched]

Inner Beast says hi. You can prepare your 5 stacks in Deliverance, then switch to Defiance oGCD and instantly after use IB.

So what you're saying is WAR needs to use Defiance AND a GCD to get the full effect of their tank stance instantly? Guess it's no different from Shield Oath/Grit then.

[Freyyy]

So what you're saying is WAR needs to use Defiance AND a GCD to get the full effect of their tank stance instantly? Guess it's no different from Shield Oath/Grit then.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that if a WAR puts Defiance ON too late to get topped off before receiving damage sufficiently high to make use of these max HP (basically a tank buster), they can instantly use IB which is litteraly on demand 20% mitigation + self-healing which helps also to survive the incoming attack. With experience on the fights, you can turn Defiance on early enough to be topped off by healers before the tank buster (which is the only reason to need more max HP). Other than max HP, what Defiance brings is the increase in healing magic received, which they instantly get. And the simple fact that Grit/Oaths are breaking combos and cost a resource (which is pretty important for DRK) makes Defiance take the advantage. Grit/Oaths dancing is clunky, De/liver/fi/ance stance dancing is smooth as fuck and absolutely orgasmic to play.