Angry Bards

[ColdestHeaven]

BLM rotation is easy. BLM was never about hard rotations. That is, if you define "rotation" as in "sequence of skills you need to use to achieve optimal DPS". Fire3-Fire4-Fire4-Fire-Fire4-Fire4-Blizzard3 is easy compared to what NIN has to do, for example.

Keeping an optimal DPS and rotation while having to move because of mechanics, and resuming it when you stop moving - now, that is harder. Mdha02 simply did not word it right at first. Saying "it's easy if you are not moving" is kinda like saying "healing a tankbuster is easy if tanks are using hallowed ground"; at least that's how I see it. I saw a linked video in one of these threads that actually made me chuckle. I wish BLM were able to do this and not lose on any Fire4 cast...

[RiceisNice]

I saw a linked video in one of these threads that actually made me chuckle. I wish BLM were able to do this and not lose on any Fire4 cast...

People need to stop using that video as a comparison to mobility when it's rather moot in context. There's a difference between moving when you have to (which a BLM can still do by step-casting during the last .5 seconds) and moving when you don't need to, and all the video demonstrates is the latter which honestly means jack shite in a raid environment because telegraphed AoEs allow for stepping anyway.

Both jobs lose dps either way when a mechanic forces them to be on the move like Ravana Orbs or baiting puddles. I don't move that much in 2.0, and me and the BLM certainly don't move that much in Savage, and it certainly wasn't the case before in 2.x if casters were still on average doing more dps than BRDs even if you were to factor out requiem

[ColdestHeaven]

1000charsnip

BLM can step-cast, but can they do it easily and reliably in order to dodge without losing on any Fire4 cast (which sums up to a lot of their damage)? My answer is no. BRD cast time are rather short compared to BLM, you can use step-cast and you will basically always have enough time to dodge that one attack coming in the wrong moment. BLM casts are about double of that, and if you either delay your cast or interrupt it because you now have to dodge, you have to watch two timers laughing at you. The discussion was about how easy it is to recover to mechanics screwing you.
Also: that video is no mere "comparison" - it just shows you how a BRD can move basically anywhere in their rotation and still not suffer much in terms of lost uptime. Black mages, on the other hand, have stricter timings for that - unless they want to lose on "lots of easy damage". You have 30-25-20 seconds to cast two Fire and four Fire4, but that's not even half the issue, because astral fire wears off in about 3 seconds after the second Fire4. I am no BLM main, but from what I can tell from personal experience in both Minuet and level 60 BLM I wouldn't really consider BLM easier to manage in that sense. It's quite hectic, and not in the sense of "DPS efficiency", but class mechanics. BLM is way slower in recovering from a fuck-up, and being slow not only in Savage but other content too is not really good nor pleasant - I believe that much we can agree on.

[RiceisNice]

...

They can do it, but my point is do they need to, as much as BRD being able to step-cast. If we're talking on strictly the basis of mobility, then of course BRD would outshine BLM in that in both being more flexible in it and having less of a dps loss in it.


I agree that BLM has more timers to watch out for, because BRD has literally gotten nothing to add to their list of juggling and quite frankly, the cast times actually make it impossible to react to their procs in time. But beyond that, mobility (or lack of) really have nothing to do with that, at least in the scope of the current content we have where it would hurt the BLM more than it would the BRD (and thus their dps would suffer severely to the poinnt of doing equal or less than a BRD).

To make it clear, the mobility with BRD is not the problem, and quite frankly, the current content doesn't necessarily punish BLM more than BRD for having less mobility (which is why I don't see the point of the video other than to prove that BRDs are still some-what motile, which again isn't the problem) especially when you can work around using your cooldowns or timers and delay/use it when you know you can maintain it instead of haphazardly tossing it out.

[ColdestHeaven]

snip

That part of my first post was aimed to those comparing BRD to BLM, mind you. So the very moment you state that "the mobility with BRD is not the problem", it means the video I linked is not relevant to you - nor to anyone with your same opinion. You say that BRDs being slightly stationary is not a problem, but I got the distinct impression that people around here mostly complained about that. Hence why I even bothered finding and posting that video here, because I consider it an extreme example of how inconsistent is this complaint. I get your point, and I agree - but I think you misunderstood who I was referring to. As for "do they need to", at times yeah. At times you have to move. And it's not that hard to mess up a timer because of that. I just expanded on what Mhda02 already argued: it's hectic.

[RiceisNice]

...

Your post appeared to be directed to asilleia and mdha02 which are debating on how hard a BLM rotation is due to mechanics or movement (when the matter of fact is, difficulty is subjective, while the number of skills and the specific execution of it is objective ,but that can be said for other classes too to maintain optimal dps during a burst). Your reply was directed more to how it would be difficult to maintain due to mechanics, and proceeded to link an example.

My perspective still remains that mobility (therefore mechanics) is not exclusively hazardous to BLM, but anyone working with cast times, especially when it comes to things like enochian/leylines when you should be looking out for an ideal time where you're either the least likely to get targeted and have full time on the boss (which again, is applicable to all jobs that need to time their cooldowns).

You're right that the overall complaint is inconsistent, but at the same time, it's not relevant to the comparison of BLM or BRD (not to mention you directly responded to me more on the mobility aspect even when I had said that it's not the case, so it's a little bit on both ends) in that regard is one point I'd like to pass on; BLM is objectively dealing less damage than a BRD if they're both moving full time (which is also the case in 2.0), but most the encounters never allows that to be the case (and if it does, it usually minimizes the amount of effectiveness the BRD/MCH's free range dps actually has, like Ravana's beetle stance and orb kiting.

Other than that, we can both agree that it's stupid to ever compare BLM and BRD to each other outside of the fact that they have cast times. BLM has more skills to use compared to BRD, that's not up to for debate. In the end, the problem is not BRDs having cast times, but what results from having cast times, and it'd be better for both sides to just stay on that fact rather than comparing battle scars of dps loss due to cast times (because really, it hasn't stopped BLMs from doing more DPS than bards in the past even without factoring reqieum)

[ColdestHeaven]

snip

Yes, of course current endgame has no real costant-movement-heavy fights while still being able to DPS, so the point of being mobile or not is moot - I'm not even sure there was such a scenario even back in 2.0. What I meant was how the class felt after having to dodge a single attack/series of AOE (current spell timing feeling awkward whenever you have to stop for more than half a second). However I seem to have misinterpreted your first answer a bit, and I apologize for that - you mean things like squeezing off-GCD and overall clunkiness rather than interrupting casts because of mobility, right?