The issue nobody wants to address

[Dante_V]

I really hate to say it, but I have to think that most of the ones opposing it, are the ones who would be shown to be detriments to a party.
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So much this and it's a display of willful ignorance. On top of that the idea that you can "look at the numbers" on the mob and tell if you have decent dps, as the above poster has stated, is so false it's ridiculous. I could run up, suiton > trick attack > mudra (all with no gcds in between) > and then aeolian edge repeatedly and produce high numbers on the mob but I would have not only destroyed my opener but I would also be doing extremely sub optimal dps by negating the priority of the ninja rotation. The numbers appearing on the mob in and of themselves aren't an indicator of dps what so ever and the sheer bulk of highest potency moves in this game show the lowest numbers because they are typically DoT applications. Numbers are meaningless without context and a parser is a tool that calculates and develops context to provide feedback and meaning to those numbers.

[dank1]

I really hate to say it, but I have to think that most of the ones opposing it, are the ones who would be shown to be detriments to a party.

They can be used badly by some people of course. But anything can. I love when someone I know is running one and constantly pester them for my numbers. It has to be annoying for them. It gets annoying for me that I have to ask. But even then, I'm only getting the bare dps numbers, as asking everything would be too much. to be able to see using what cool downs when absolutely minimized my damage intake as tank while dps was high would be great.

Most of us dont mind letting you know your numbers
In fact it makes me happy that people care to know

I don't openly post numbers though due to the sensitivity on the topic, the threat of being banned doesn't scare me though . I'm sure SE has better things to worry about and I think the playerbase should take that into consideration rather than froth at the mouth while yelling out U PARSE U EXPOSE MY LAZINESS I REPOT YOU

[Sapphic]

People who wanna speed run can do that already, and this has been said again and again.
I wonder why people don't listen when they're being told to bring their friends and go with their own party.

We other players are not tools for your satisfaction.
Your freedom ends where mine begins.

People who wanna run dungeons slow can do that already, and this has been said again and again.
I wonder why people don't listen when they're being told to bring their friends and go with their own party.

We other players are not tools for your satisfaction.
Your freedom ends where mine begins

Most of us dont mind letting you know your numbers
In fact it makes me happy that people care to know

I don't openly post numbers though due to the sensitivity on the topic, the threat of being banned doesn't scare me though . I'm sure SE has better things to worry about and I think the playerbase should take that into consideration rather than froth at the mouth while yelling out U PARSE U EXPOSE MY LAZINESS I REPOT YOU

Think only need to worry if you start being abusive with them.

[Whiteroom]

I'm sorry, but this trope has to go. Again, this talking point functions on a false dichotomy that fails to take into consideration people who know their job, execute their rotations when the situation allows them to do so, and use abilities in a timely fashion, but have no desire to focus on their numbers more than necessary. It also fails to take into account those of us who have no objection (let me repeat that: No Objection) to parsers that show one's own numbers in an accurate fashion (i.e. no slurring over DoT numbers, pet damage, etc.). .

Thats why I said most, as well as "I have to think". And I do believe it to be true. The arguments for parsers far outweigh the ones against. The only way it would be bad if is if it were a parser with little thought or work put into it.

It really does just come down to the fact the devs apparently don't want to deal with the influx of d-bags...

This statement has been shown to be false in many parser threads.

Also, it does not make you free to be an idiot to people, they won't be removing the report feature, it would just mean that a number could be put to the reason you remove someone, not that you are free to harass other players.

[Welsper59]

Thats why I said most, as well as "I have to think". And I do believe it to be true. The arguments for parsers far outweigh the ones against. The only way it would be bad if is if it were a parser with little thought or work put into it.

It really does just come down to the fact the devs apparently don't want to deal with the influx of d-bags that, I guarantee, does come about when people are able to freely flex their e-peen. I do state the guarantee with emphasis because there has been zero evidence at any point in more than the last decade to show that history will not repeat itself within an MMORPG environment lol. We, the player base, are absolute idiots when we're given anything to use at our disposal to emphasize competition (even against those who have no idea they're apparently competing). If the devs don't want to deal with it, they don't have to, and thus they're not officially in the game. That argument alone trumps all others lol.

The fact they are aware of it and are okay with it (off the record) is just a means to say "you are free to use them, but don't be an idiot". Whereas, were it to be official, you could be that idiot without concern and the devs will have to throw more problems onto the table to be looked at. I like parsers, and admittedly I use it myself from time to time, but it's seriously not as big of a deal as people make it out to be with how we are now. Most people for it are acting as though an official "ok" or removal of it from ToS is suddenly going to make the whole game change for the better in some huge completely game changing way lol. That is literally impossible to happen because it already exists. Nothing changes in a meaningful way.

People are blending in two arguments and failing miserably by doing so. There's the argument for their absolute approval to use, which is the most popular one, and the argument for their official creation. The latter is the only one that has weight, given the situation and unofficial acknowledgment for the former. An official creation would directly benefit console users... that's pretty much it, as far as what we have right now. That argument however gets overshadowed by the want for them to officially declare it all right to use. Paying attention to parsers would still be optional though, just like how paying attention to your own abilities is! Funny how all of that still comes together for ways to potentially fail lol.

[RickXRolled]

What people fail to realize is that there is already allot of people who use parsers.
They simply don't know because the people parsing usually don't say/do anything.
The only times they find out players are parsing is when one person links it in chat or starts to attack people.
Since they never notice any parsing players, except when it is used to harass, they believe the only players parsing are evil douchebags.

TLDR;
People only see negative parser use and never know of any positives.

[Aniforani]

Lets skip some steps and get to where we need to be.Why not give an option to turn on a setting that lets the game preform these rotation of abilities and skills for us like auto attacks. That way no one can parse below perfection, and all that will matter is what gear we have. Is that the goal we are looking for? Perhaps the game can just look at our stats and abilities before the dungeon and based on them give a countdown timer till we auto win. I mean working alongside people of various skill levels is so annoying. Variations in completion time throw off my day.
This is an extreme of what is being asked, but it would solve the problems. Would you mind if the other person was even at the keyboard if it gave you a faster win?

[Ayuhra]

Oh, look, the Parser Argument again. /resets "Days since..." back to 0

I think people have to understand where the apprehension towards a party-wide meter is coming from. Since I usually performed high on the meters in the groups I ran with in other games I was rarely harassed but there was some harassment that occured. The big problem with the meters I think is that it turns killing a boss into a pissing contest between the DPS in a group. No longer is the objective to kill the boss, it's to do better than your own party members. A definite competition sets in for them in a way it doesn't for healers or tanks. If you are not a naturally competitive person this can feel stressful. If you are looked at as a number instead of a tank or a healer it feels dehumanizing (And we are numbers, I mean we're called "Damage Per Second" instead of "Damager" or "Damage Dealer" within the community).

A parser can, and WILL, if introduced lead to bad behavior especially early on. I remember when we first got popular meter addons in WoW, people just acted like idiots. Rogues and feral druids would refuse to switch targets because they were bent on getting off a 5cp finisher so adds caused all sorts of issues. Additionally, people were jumping in too soon, bursting at the beginning of a fight, not cutting off dots before threat wipes (like Hydross)...all because they wanted to be at the top of the meter. Congratulations, we wiped but you certainly did rock those meters because you used your long, massive cooldowns early instead of saving them for an execution phase.

Meters can screw with class populations too. When everyone knows what dps class performs highest (because everyone will have the tools to figure it out) everyone will flock there. Not a huge problem, really, but some might find it annoying.

Actual damage meters will absolutely cause some deep changes in our little community. It's completely silly to say they won't. That said, they can still be used as a valuable tool especially for hardcore statics and they will not be abused as much as people think. They won't make jerks out of people who weren't jerks already. They WILL give said jerks a megaphone, though, so you'd have to brace yourselves for that.

How do I feel about them personally? I am, perhaps surprisingly, pro parser. They are a very handy tool in the right hands and it's nice to be able to see your own DPS and be able to adjust it on the fly. To me knowing my damage output is far less stressful than NOT knowing. The parser would just have to be good and not get confused by things like dots or counting Egis as entirely different combatants than the SMN who controls them.

[Urthdigger]

I think a lot of the whole parser argument can be boiled down to "People want DPS to be accountable". When a DPS check is being failed, it's nice to be able to see who's the one being a problem and offer some pointers if possible, or if they're being a dick about it, to kick them. There are a LOT of ignorant DPS who manage to hit higher levels by being carried, partly because they don't get the instant feedback that a tank or healer does. Even if a DPS check is failed, they can just hide behind the other DPS and hope he gets the blame. It doesn't help that some aspects of DPS aren't immediately obvious, especially in regards to DoTs (Some players don't seem to realize how potent they are, or that they snapshot your buffs at the time of use).

Being able to tell who is struggling to keep up means we can offer help to where it's needed. I recall a recent bismarck extreme where we were failing to kill the two adds in time and one member was running a parser. We found one of the BLMs, despite being well-geared compared to the other members, was doing significantly less, so they were taken aside to practice their rotation after it was disbanded.

Yes, people can use parsers to harass, but I highly doubt anyone cares if you parse less unless you're doing like half the damage of the other DPS. The only thing a parser does is make players accountable, making the actions of the DPS less invisible. As they should be.

[Malevicton]

It really does just come down to the fact the devs apparently don't want to deal with the influx of d-bags

Not really, though. Devs have asked people not to use them for harassment, but they've never really said that they would cause more - that's just something the community decided. This source is a bit old (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WX...outu.be&t=6m5s) but he never even mentions harassment as one of the reasons, let alone the foremost. Here's another interview (http://gamerescape.com/2014/02/12/ps...naoki-yoshida/) where yoshi's asked about it and never mentions harassment in a 3 paragraph answer. If your argument is that it's a dev position, then you should really have a source. In this case, that's not the dev position, it's a community position.

I know everyone says it's a dev position, but it's really bugging me because it's really not true at all. After the first ZAM interview where he laid down fight club rules, everyone started saying stuff like "so basically as long as you don't use it to harass people, no one will know." Which is true. But that was just because harassment would break the fight club rules; harassment itself was never the focus until the community made it that way. Harassment being in any way relevant to parsers was a conclusion drawn by the community via a series of implications, none of which are really tied to any dev statement.

At this point everyone just assumes it's true because so many people say it, and people say it because they assume it's true, and they assume it's true... ad infinitum. That argument might trump all others if it were true, but it's not.

As for your personal opinions about it... where are you gathering this evidence? Everything I've seen and experienced personally (stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas) suggests the opposite. If you're going to appeal to history, can you find any examples? I agree that there's no reason to think history wouldn't repeat itself, but we apparently have very different ideas as to what that means.