Just got wheeling thrust.... Can someone explain the point of it to me?

[Jaehaerys]

I would love for them to move Wheeling Thrust to the level 56 quest so you get them both at the same time, and give us a new "Jump" at 58, odd that the class based around jump, didn't get a new jump with Heavensward. Or maybe something defensive.

Moving from back to flank or vice versa isn't complex either, no matter what anyone argues. moving is a common thing we do in all MMOs.

[Hitoseijuro]

I would love for them to move Wheeling Thrust to the level 56 quest so you get them both at the same time, and give us a new "Jump" at 58, odd that the class based around jump, didn't get a new jump with Heavensward. Or maybe something defensive.

Moving from back to flank or vice versa isn't complex either, no matter what anyone argues. moving is a common thing we do in all MMOs.

I dont think when people are mentioning complex, that its difficult in any way to do, its more along the lines that Square enix decided to add another ability at 58 for dragoon that accomplishes the exact same thing as the ability at 56 with only the positional being different and the moves being required after the combo chain becomes random thus adding the "complex" expression on people's faces of "huh".


It would be like if when monk goes to coeurl stance instead of using demolish, it becomes a random chance of using demolish or another ability that does exactly what demolish does but from the flank.

Fang and Claw could have easily been a rear positional, and the dev team could have called it a day and given us another powered up dive(not jump, but dive).

[RiceisNice]

...

Except it's in a different circumstance. Monk rotations rely on stances so they always give the same skill accessibility no matter what (they do either demolish, snap punch or rockbreaker on coeurl). There's also no point in giving them two different demolishes that work functionally the same if their purpose was just damage. In DRG's case, it's extending BotD which accounts for a good chunk of their damage. It prevents tunnel visioning and demand some aspect of situation awareness and giving the class some identity in their gameplay. For example, why would they use a proc system rotation instead of a 1-2-3 combo for MCH? It's "adding complexity" or whatever. Difficult or not, it at least deviates the job to some extent from BRD (though not enough imo) and melee classes who already use 1-2-3 combos.

The question is, does the design of adding WT/FnC go against the design of dragoon, does it add more variety and differentiates from the other melees? Adding another oGCD honestly does not add much and is very boring if it meant taking/changing one aspect of management on the DRG's end (which is what BRD suffers from, since once you break it down, all they've really gotten is a couple of extra oGCDs added onto their 2.0 gameplay)

If you wanted another ability in it's place, then sure. But I'd disagree that something like WT is a "pointless" addition, at least not to the same extent of the likes of warden's paeon or pre-3.05 WM/GB.

[Hitoseijuro]

There's also no point in giving them two different demolishes that work functionally the same if their purpose was just damage. In DRG's case, it's extending BotD which accounts for a good chunk of their damage.

Exactly, this is what everyone who is opposed to having wheeling thrust in the game or having wheeling thrust learned separately from Fang and Claw. WT adds NOTHING, it is a mirror image ability of Fang and Claw with the positional being the ONLY difference(and obviously animation). FnC extends BoTDs timer too, again, Wheeling Thrust ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING over Fang and Claw.

Basically Square could have just done: Impulsive dive --> disembowel --> Chaos thrust --> Fang and Claw /// True thrust --> vorpal thrust --> full thrust ---> Fang and claw . This would have been the same out come DPS-wise and no one would have blinked an eye. This is why a couple of posters are saying, there is nothing being added with Wheeling thrust outside of complexity just for complex sake, it achieves nothing but its being added just to add. Everything that is being achieved could have been achieved with just fang claw itself.

Hell the E3 Fang and Claw and WT were done so when you used chaos you would get one, and when you used full thrust you would get the other but it wouldnt be random you knew which you would get always(This would have been a smoother idea and preferred) but I believe Dervy said that, that was due to it being on an older model/engine probably.

[RiceisNice]

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It achieves differentiation of DRG's playstyle rather than simply being another 1-2-3-4 combo class. If people are complaining about WT not doing anything different, they'll sure as hell complain it anyway regardless of if the 4th combo extension was random or not.

And as someone mentioned earlier, it'd also bring into concern the balance of powers/utility between all the dps classes, considering DRG is already among the strongest melee with arguably the best utility that guarantees them a raid slot as much as a BRD/MCH and WAR.

that might boost up the DPS even further, but class balance is not the main discussion in this thread
and dont have issue with current FC WT setting, just i would be feeling much happier if they are given out at same level and a totally different skill unlocked for next stage

Like this right here, DRG doesn't need any more damage or utility for that matter. Unless you want them to literally slap on a skill that has no practical use like paeon or feint. On paper, having a 4th skill that'll finish no matter what with no circumstances attached to it, which can extend your buff that increases your overall dps, is honestly quite boring and OP'd on paper. The split would be needed to address that to at least necessitate some sort of situation awareness.

[Misutoraru]

It achieves differentiation of DRG's playstyle rather than simply being another 1-2-3-4 combo class.

i honestly dont mind they give me a feint II
it is not about "rational"
it is the feeling that unlocking FC, WT at 56 58 which literally do the same thing with different position, it feel "SE could do better than that"
even it is a useless feint II, i still feel "wow something new"

[whiskeybravo]

stuff

Most of what I said wasn't directed at you specifically, just more in general complaining about the complaining lol. I mean, yea, we could have had something better. But I don't want to assume whatever they could've given us would be better than what we have. I certainly wouldn't want a Feint II lol

And no, balance is not the point of this thread, but if we are throwing around stuff like "there could have been a different ability", then balance does come into the discussion, because we can't have it all. And while I do understand where most people are coming from with their complaints, after sitting back and looking at it objectively, I think the way they implemented it is the best way they could have implemented it. It's not too much at once, you have time to adjust (rewire your muscle memory) to a 4th hit, and then towards lv60 (when it matters) you get the full feel for how the mechanic works, and most importantly time to get used to it all. So I think they did a good job in that regard.

[RiceisNice]

i honestly dont mind they give me a feint II
it is not about "rational"
it is the feeling that unlocking FC, WT at 56 58 which literally do the same thing with different position, it feel "SE could do better than that"
even it is a useless feint II, i still feel "wow something new"

Being on the receiving end of this, especially for post 50 skills, I will tell you right now, this will not be the case. Between "adding complexity for the sake of it" and "adding skills for the sake of it", the latter is a bigger waste of data space honestly.