DEV REQUEST: Remove cast bars to MCH & BRD

[Gilraen]

I happen to like Minuet. The pace of actions is like a lazy enmity control, don't have to hold back anywhere near as much when I start plunking buffs. That said, Minuet wasn't something Square gave Bard just because. Bard is every bit as viable without as they are with. Minuet is their answer to players requests for more damage, and more damage it is. But seems Square wasn't exactly anticipating people ONLY wanting more damage, they didn't want it balanced against the other Jobs. "But it's not balanced!" Oh, but it is. Other Jobs may have gotten as many buffs in Heavensward but they arealmost all limited in use and duration... save Minuet. I'm not counting the Extra Jobs cause their thing is being new with Heavensward. But. again, Bard is every bit as viable without Minuet as they are with so if you don't like having to stand still and cast like a Black Mage, then don't use it. Quit talking for others when clearly you don't.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I've gotten used to using WM now on my bard character, though I can't entirely say whether I actually enjoy it now or not. I realize the usefulness of it as far as boosting my own damage goes, especially for making up as a baseline for the damage loss I take by using Mage's Ballad or etc. And Empyreal Arrow is fun to use in itself, since it feels like one of the better damage skills now especially paired with how Barrage works (plus the animation is just cool).

Just personally, the initial reason I went to Bard was the mobility of it. I knew when I started it that the class wouldn't ever reach the heights of damage that a Black Mage or Dragoon could dish out, but I hated (at the time) magic classes and already had plenty of melee classes, so when I decided to pick up a new dps class after I leveled my tank to 50, Bard was my first choice. And it's felt like part of Bard's appeal was taken away with the addition of WM. Yes, I realize I could just not use it - and for a while I refused to, thinking the loss of my auto-attack and ability to move freely while attacking was more valuable in the long run. And I can't say I've entirely lost that mindset, just now I also realize WM does boost my class by a lot - enough to make due with the cast bars, which are admittedly far shorter than a healer's or any magic user's are.

Of course, at this point I'm changing my Bard character to Summoner for various reasons (one of which being what I mentioned about feeling as if Bard's initial draw is gone now, though that's honestly the least of my reasons). But I do still enjoy the class (WM and all) enough to roll a second Bard to make up for the upcoming change to my current one's class.

I do feel like WM should have been added far before level 50, or at least our skills should have been more tailored to it from the get-go, as now when you hit 50 and move on to gain WM, it's a very drastic change in playstyle compared to 1-50's experience, which can very well turn people off from the class entirely if they weren't aware of WM's existence beforehand. As someone mentioned a while back, Machinist feels like it was built from the ground up with Gauss Barrel in mind, so the shift to it doesn't feel as drastic (and honestly, I feel like before Gauss Barrel, Machinist feels mega slow for both auto attacks as well as actual skills - but that could just be my perception based on the skill animations).

I hope a middle ground can be found for Bard primarily, but Machinist as well if necessary - I do see the benefits of WM, but I also feel like the change to the class was rather drastic given how long we went without it.

[RiceisNice]

I happen to like Minuet. The pace of actions is like a lazy enmity control, don't have to hold back anywhere near as much when I start plunking buffs. That said, Minuet wasn't something Square gave Bard just because. Bard is every bit as viable without as they are with. Minuet is their answer to players requests for more damage, and more damage it is. But seems Square wasn't exactly anticipating people ONLY wanting more damage, they didn't want it balanced against the other Jobs. "But it's not balanced!" Oh, but it is. Other Jobs may have gotten as many buffs in Heavensward but they arealmost all limited in use and duration... save Minuet. I'm not counting the Extra Jobs cause their thing is being new with Heavensward. But. again, Bard is every bit as viable without Minuet as they are with so if you don't like having to stand still and cast like a Black Mage, then don't use it. Quit talking for others when clearly you don't.

Wat. DPs for all the jobs is balanced around using 3.0 skills to keep the dps discrepancy the same. Bards using WM isnt doing any more damage in 3.0 compared to other classes that are using their 3.0 skills as it was in 2.0. If you were to take off WM, the damage discrepancy would widen and you'd be doing less damage comparatively than it was in 2.0.

It also doesn't control enmity because it doesn't slow down the rate of skills you use. You're still using one skill every 2.5~ seconds due to the GCD.

[Gilraen]

You're still using one skill every 2.5~ seconds due to the GCD.

I don't know, I've found during the last boss of Vault I can kill the orbs faster without Minuet than I can with. As for GCD, yes, it is still 2.5 seconds but with Minuet up there's a 3.5-ish cast time for most actions so GCD is moot at that point. At least, that's what I've noticed, I don't really give it the third-degree so I can't say with utter confidence. Either way, I'm not generating as much enmity with Minuet as I do without because of the extra time between actions. This is one of the trade-offs for doing 30% more damage, a casting time and reduced mobility. This is also the thing alot of the 'everyone' spokespeople seem to hate. Again, there had to be a trade-off in order for it to be balanced.

[rappa]

I don't know, I've found during the last boss of Vault I can kill the orbs faster without Minuet than I can with. As for GCD, yes, it is still 2.5 seconds but with Minuet up there's a 3.5-ish cast time for most actions so GCD is moot at that point. At least, that's what I've noticed, I don't really give it the third-degree so I can't say with utter confidence. Either way, I'm not generating as much enmity with Minuet as I do without because of the extra time between actions. This is one of the trade-offs for doing 30% more damage, a casting time and reduced mobility. This is also the thing alot of the 'everyone' spokespeople seem to hate. Again, there had to be a trade-off in order for it to be balanced.

3.5? what kind of connection have you got?

My cast bars with 528 skill speed are 1'46
With 707 are 1.42

Please don't blame castsbars when the problem is your connection or ISP.

[kalasnikov]

It seems to be more about complain of how delayed the bard damage is, yes cast finishes within 1.5 seconds, but the hit lands when you are already halfway the next cast. cast time+ animation makes damage really delayed compared to some other jobs

[rappa]

It's same as black mages.
You started to cast fire I and you would see fire III proc from the last fire I. (You used surecast - lethargy - virus or another ability to force server update and check the proc before fire I hits. Was useful during 2.4 and beyond before start casting blizzard III to enter umbral ice).

bards are the same, you use bloodletter, blunt arrow, empyreal arrow, sidewinder and all kind of buffs to force server update and check Straigther Shot proc. Sometimes you get the proc when you are casting, it's a crap and would be fixed. The potency lost is 10 against use heavy shot cast vs straight shot cast. You cast SS and you have the proc, no problem. Let ss be casted, use another oGCD, and use against SS proc.

[RiceisNice]

...

Your cast time is 1.5 seconds in a 2.5 GCD. There's no possible way for you to generate "less" enmnity compared to now, unless you always opened with an auto attack rather than a weapon skill.

It's same as black mages.
You started to cast fire I and you would see fire III proc from the last fire I. (You used surecast - lethargy - virus or another ability to force server update and check the proc before fire I hits. Was useful during 2.4 and beyond before start casting blizzard III to enter umbral ice).

bards are the same, you use bloodletter, blunt arrow, empyreal arrow, sidewinder and all kind of buffs to force server update and check Straigther Shot proc. Sometimes you get the proc when you are casting, it's a crap and would be fixed. The potency lost is 10 against use heavy shot cast vs straight shot cast. You cast SS and you have the proc, no problem. Let ss be casted, use another oGCD, and use against SS proc.

You can't use a oGCd skill to force a server check for SS procs. I mentioned this in a previous post and it doesn't work like that for BRD for god knows why because you can do this just fine for BLM

[rappa]

You mentioned heavy shot cast followed by straight shot cast, then you notice you got ss proc. I said that would be fixed but will be hard like server connection and your game work.

As i said. Cast heavy shot - bloodletter(ss proc appears) - straight shot instant.

[AdamFyi]

Cast heavy shot - bloodletter(ss proc appears) - straight shot instant.

To some degree, something like this; but it's not very reliable due to the chance-based proc.

In actuality, if they wanted to, they can actually decrease the animation delay just a smidgen so that it behaves similar to MCH's procs. If you haven't played MCH, basically, the procs are almost near-instant after the animation ends. I guess part of the problem is that SS procs are synced to the 2.X instants, and not with 3.X casts.

Personally, I really like how bard is now. Just tweak the animation delay on SS procs, and make Warden's Paean a lot more useful (even giving it an instant cast with a 15 second recast, or a 1 second cast time just like Swiftsong would be fine!), and I'll be happy.