Were we in the right to kick?

[Malevicton]

It wasn't unspoken though. It's been a very explicit qualifier since page 1.

[RiceisNice]

But. Sure. Let's assume Blank's a DPS loss on an immovable target. By that same logic, Jump, Leg Sweep, Blunt Arrow, and every other oGCD attack is a DPS loss as well![/I]
#getridofocds

No one is arguing that, infact I even mentioned this. Nor was it even unspoken in this topic.

The common sense should be directed to you if you're trying to compare jump or even dragon kick to blank. The two latter skills does not affect the positioning of the mob that can potentially get in the way of your party. Now if the mob itself was immune to knockback, then sure, it's free damage that you shouldn't be skipping out on.
)

Random knockback is incredibly inefficient and aggravating on a road-rage level. There is no argument that justifies a knockback skill's use in a rotation except on enemies that are immune to it.

DPS in this game is not tied to a single person, but to the entire group. Using knockback on not-immune enemies on cooldown because "muh DPS" is not only selfish, but fundamentally wrong.

But that's not the context of the MCH in OP's statement when the former is using blank in a disruptive manner. A tank (or melee dps) should not be catering to the MCH using blank when the enemy can be knockedback; it should be the other way around because you getting your blank off is worth much much less dps than a melee getting a proper positional. And even then, you weren't arguing for that context either since you outright stated that the other tanks and DPS should play accordingly to you using blanks when again, they have much much more to lose than your 100 potency for missing a positional because you're misfiring the blanks.

And for the record, most non-giant dungeon mobs are not immune except for every single one in fracturnal (which frustrates me even more when all of the mobs except for a single one in neverreap can be knockedback)

And just to nitpick

As a tank? I've only ever lost one gcd to a mch using blank, if that. Even as a ninja or a monk I'd rather see the machinist using it since that means they at least care about doing as much damage as possible. What makes Fluid aura bad isn't the knockback on its own, but the knock back combined with bind, which prevents the mob from moving back into position.

So you, as a melee, would be perfectly fine with a MCH using blank to push your current (and only) target away from you, and cause you to miss your positional (which can be as high as +80 potency before buffs, on a class that has a stronger weapon damage than you) or skill in general (which can be extremely detrimental to DRG's BotD)

[Icebrand]

Using a knockback in a group "for the deepz" is stupid, and the machinist should feel bad for being a jerk. ESPECIALLY AV. It's pretty clear-cut.

Knockbacks when there are melee players is no different than having a tank that runs all over the place for no damn good reason.

[Februs]

Words and stuff.

One, the fact that a Drg or Mnk are even worrying about their positional dmg bonuses means that they are actively trying to NOT be lazy, but that’s not the point. The point is that they could be the most active and committed player in the game and still lose positional dmg bonuses to knockbacks. As soon as their moves go off, if the target is turned or pushed, they lose bonus. There’s no getting it back. In regards to a Drg, this is even worse because of Blood of the Dragon.

Drg’s wheeling thrust or fang and claw moves are TIMED. They have one GCD to pop their 4th tier combo. If they don’t, or accidentally pop something else before using it, they lose it, which means losing time on your BotD buff. That’s a loss of a combo potency of 200 (290 with positional bonus) as well as 30% bonus on their jumps when BotD falls off. Apparently, that’s not important though.

To get to your so-called “relevant” content. You say that knockbacks can’t move targets… um, what? If they weren’t than this person’s thread would never have gone up in the first place. So, I’m not sure what kind of lunacy you’re talking about here. Some targets are immovable, sure, and on those targets people can feel free to throw up as many knocbacks as they can, but on the average mob it's a problem.

You do give us the numbers on Blank, though. That’s very helpful. It clears up so much misunderstanding. You say that Blank combo potency can increase up to 135, and that, during a 10 minute fight (which could only be a boss fight, and even then you’re going very, VERY, slow) it adds up to a dmg counter of 2700 Dps… Well hot damn. That’s astounding. I never knew that Blank was such a powerhouse.

In case you can’t read sarcasm, let’s put this in perspective. Heavy thrust has a potency of 100(+70) from flank. Chaos Thrust has 100(+50 from rear. A total of 250 with combo bonus and position bonus), with the full combo potency stacking up to 650 if executed correctly, using positional. Jump has a potency of 200 (300 when surged + 30% with BotD = 390). Spineshatter Drive has a potency of 170 (255 when surged + 30% = 332). Wheeling thrust and Fang and Claw both have a combo potency of 200 (+90) when positioned correctly, and none of those potency numbers reflect the dmg boost granted by Heavy thrust (a straight +15% on everything). In short, in case you’re not following the math here, Blank is the equivalent to a Drgoon’s fart. How you could even consider comparing Blank to any of these moves is beyond me. The only comparison that would even come close to making sense is leg sweep, but leg sweep (because the potency is the same), but even that move has advantage because it has 0 potential to interrupt or mess up anyone else’s combos or positional potency, because it doesn’t move the target. In fact, it actually ensures the target can’t move at all.

The fact that people are even trying to defend this move when it has such pitiful potency is mind blowing.

[Icebrand]

In short, in case you’re not following the math here, Blank is the equivalent to a Drgoon’s fart.

Don't forget the extra potency when used in conjunction with stuffed cabbage.

[Cynfael]

Don't forget the extra potency when used in conjunction with stuffed cabbage.

If they really care about their DPS, they'll use Fiber One Bars HQ.

Also guaranteed to increase the rate at which you clear mobs IRL.

[Sida]

As many here have stated, the MCH I think deserved his kick. However, the DRG was also acting a bit wrong in asking you to kick him. I guess he did it because he's never found out how vote kick works and believes that it has to be the party leader (who you happened to be at the time) who has to be the one initiating it. Talking in chat about wishes of kicking someone is a bit.. bad form. He should have just initiated the vote and, seeing if the healer already agreed with his point of view it would have gone through. And if it would not have gone through, the MCH would have had not a reason to act against it. Then you would have still had the issue of knockbacks of course but being kicked for those and being kicked for making an ass of himself when being put up against the wall is a bit different issues.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

I use Blank mostly as...
->A finisher
->On mobs that are immune
->On cooldown for bosses
->I may also use it to blast something away and bind it, to give the tank or healer some breathing room
->Punting a ranged mob into the group

Using it on cooldown for trash is mostly pointless, yes it's an 100 potency ogcd attack, but the knockback frustrates the other players and lets face it, in a standard dungeon, its really not going to make much difference. Have some respect for the other players, if they ask you to stop using it, stop. Work with your group, not against it.

As for your MCH, he was being a stubborn jerk, but the DRG was silly to ask you to kick him (could have easily initiated it himself)

[Sida]

.. .. I'd never realised the push attacks could solve some of the aggravating ranged enemy pulls. Thank you ^^

[Isius]

You really shouldn't use a move that pushes a enemy way from the group unless you know it will kill the mob. People that continue to just push mobs will only get more, and more people angry towards them the more dungeons they do. MCH was clearly being a dick, was a kick needed before he pull a room alone. No. But yeah for what he did do after for sure.