How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

I'd like to see actual parse differences between high crit build vs a high det build. If you had all the pieces a 700+ det set is definitely possible. Seems to me the only way to really settle the crit vs det debate.

Once I have enough options to manage it, I intend to do exactly that. Gonna run some pug A1 or A3 normal with two different sets - one high crit, one high det. The issue is that to make the high det set, you NEED gordian legs+chest, which I'm nowhere close to getting, haha.

[Leonus]

Would you guys dot 2 mobs with phlebotomize during the core of the rotation?

HT > Phleb (on an add) > CT combo ( on main boss) > 4th > Phleb ( on main boss) > FT combo (on add) > 4th etc, like in a1s?

I know HT wears off before FT combo is completely finished (on full thrust), but I was curious if this was a gain or loss overall.

Or should u just stick to the rotation, even with adds, and only move Phleb once or so, like dervy did in the vid that Thendiel posted.

[whiskeybravo]

I think in general if you can have a dot ticking on something else while you work the rotation it would be a dps increase. A1S in particular tho, I don't phleb the add, I'd have to try and see how it affected things to give a good response. I normally grab the add with 4th, then ht-idc boss, depending on lasers I'll 4th the boss again or if I have to dodge laser then just 4th the add as I'm moving into position. I don't know if I could finish IDC on the boss if I threw a phleb on the add before, and it wouldn't pay off to use it after all that when it's half dead already. I'd like to actually grab the add with phleb but the rotation, I guess I could live with it unbuffed. You have at least one GCD but any longer than that it seems like they'll start running for the healers

[ReliaWylder]

Hey folks! Now that the BIS sets have been independently confirmed by several people, I'm releasing a data dump of some of the results that I've collected using an advanced simulation. This includes party bonus and HQ Drac Pot usage and the theoretical foundation is all Dervy's work, who deserves credit for making this possible in the first place and being so willing to assist on theoretical questions I had. The actual rotation used is the same as Dervy's standard rotation, except for a slightly more optimized (in my opinion) opener.

A4S Gear BIS: http://pastebin.com/EJsmyBc6
A3S Gear BIS: http://pastebin.com/wJxZstSA
A2S Gear BIS: http://pastebin.com/HQwB3Nc2

There are some interesting results in there, such as the second strongest A4S BIS set having an i190 ring (!) in its set.

[ReliaWylder]

Sets with skill speed from 463 (the lowest possible limit to still have Blood of the Dragon) to 626 were calculated. The A4S sets with higher skill speeds than 626 (from 627 to 669) are included here for completion's sake, but the top set with a higher skill speed would only place at #13 in the lower skill speed list. http://pastebin.com/WHZpu46s

For beginning raiders, a good progression of sets that doesn't waste items by only buying things that will be kept to the final BIS set would be this:
Edit: These sets mean "having cleared A2S, A3S, etc.." and is generally pretty greedy, so it only works if you're allowed to roll on all gobcoats. Additionally, it's not a good optimization for trying to clear A3S, but if you're comfortable with that then it saves you effort once you beat A3S.

http://pastebin.com/PxAx51VT

Notes: The simulator does not factor in party buffs such as Selene's Fey Wind; it is possible that the true BIS would change in that case, but that is meta-dependent and you may not always have a SCH in your party. This simulator calculates BIS with food in mind.

P.S. The final set is Aiurily's set.

[JackFross]

I'm not sure how you calculated those sets, but you missed (at least) one of the three we have up for consideration as the best in slot set.
This guy: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RM4U

And it's interesting that #1 on that lines up with the actual highest potential stat weight set according to the weights in this thread.

Also does your simulation take into account the fact that the low skill speed in Aiurily's set might cause it to be difficult (or potentially impossible) to maintain 3 gsk per minute in practice?

Not to doubt the simulation, I'm just really confused as to how that number 2 set is even in contention being as low as it is on Strength and secondaries. According to the weights here, that set falls a full 7 points behind the number 1. It's really confusing me how this is being calculated.


Also, can you list off your slightly more optimized opener? I was looking before to see if I could find any way to optimize it further and couldn't find one. Curious what you came out with and how you found it.

[ReliaWylder]

Sure, I can explain.

1. That set was discarded in one of the heuristics used to determine whether it's worth calculating a set or not. If we didn't discard any sets, there would be about 25 million sets to calculate, which is too many. Even at 1000 sets/sec, you're still looking at 7 hours of calculations.

The exact heuristic used for this particular set is the following:

A previously calculated set had these stats.

--Number 7
DPS: 1543.25874803661
Player Equipment:
Gordian Trident
Gordian Sallet of Maiming
Dragonlancer's Plackart
Gordian Gauntlets of Maiming
Fabled Belt of Maiming
Dragonlancer's Cuissots
Gordian Sabatons of Maiming
Fabled Necklace of Slaying
Gordian Earrings of Slaying
Gordian Wristband of Slaying
Fabled Ring of Slaying
Gordian Ring of Slaying
Baked Pipira Pira
Player stats:
Str: 1111
Acc: 639
Crt: 869
Det: 415
Sks: 637

If we compare the proposed set, we see that it has strictly less than or equal STR and WD and falls into a worse SKS category (650 skill speed is less dps than 637 skill speed due to DoT clipping, all else equal.)

That means the only reason to consider the proposed set instead of this already calculated set is the CRT and DET, since all other stats are equal or worse. We see that we gain 31 CRT, at the cost of 58 DET. DET's weight is approximately 0.14. In order for 31 CRT to be better than 58 DET, CRT would have to be weighed around 0.24. Unfortunately, the actual weight of CRT is around 0.12-0.17 with the range of ~300 to ~900 CRT. In order for CRT to weigh 0.24, you would probably have to have around 1500 CRT already. Anyway, the actual weight doesn't even come close to the weight it would need to be better for any practical purpose so we can immediately tell it's a worse set and not calculate it.

Actually calculating it proves this result: 1538.313 dps, which is 5 dps lower than the previously calculated set, so the heuristic was correct.

2. While weights are considered in the heuristics to filter out sets that will never come close to competing, the actual calculation of DPS does not use weights and derives directly from the formulas. So the fact that it matches up with the weights is a happy coincidence.

3. Yes. The lower limit of skill speed is 463 in the simulation to ensure the broadest possible range of sets are calculated. However, you have to be a machine to do that. But it is certainly possible. To prove this, equip a 490 skill speed set and try it. I just did; you can get 3 gsk/min every time. 579 skill speed would be very comfortable.

4. #2 is in contention because the simulation doesn't use weights to calculate DPS. It calculates actual DPS, whereas weights are only an approximation (especially when talking about CRT and SKS).

5.
--OPENER
HT
BL
B4B
ID
BOTD
IR (this is flipped for the opener only - in the rotation, always use IR before BOTD. This flip is in order to get IR to apply to the second CT.)
DIS
STRPOT
CT
LS
PS
4TH
JMP
PH
SSD
ID
DFD
DIS
LEG
GK
CT
4TH

Follow the opener with HT-TTT4, etc. This opener does about 700 more damage than the standard opener with A4S stats. I found it because I originally developed a rotation simulator.

Hope that's helpful!

[JackFross]

I'm gonna have to try that out tonight in A3, now, lol. I'll see how it ends up working out for me and report here. Last night I was around 1400 going into phase transition relatively consistently. It looks cool, at least, and will make me feel special, so...

I'd still reverse DFD and SSD, though, for my own personal preference. I like having DFD one GCD sooner for whatever reason. FEELS better to me.

[ReliaWylder]

If you try it in A3S, after your 3rd GK, you will have 3 GCD's left. Instead of applying HT, just do TTT. Then when he becomes vulnerable again, you can open with HT-IDC4-PH. This way you get higher potency right before he invulns, the Disembowel and CT will still be active the entire time through the invuln and into your second opener.

[JackFross]

It took me a while to get it down, and I didn't notice a significant dps increase (though I was closer to 1430-1440 average instead of 1400-1410 going to first phase transition), however the phase 2 rotation is like WAYYY smoother, wow. (Can't get caps there since I hit HT on invuln so I have it for the subsequent HT when he returns which gives me like 0s downtime to take the cap)

The only issue I ran into was that at Sluice I was on rear for Chaos Thrust instead of flank where I had been before tonight, so I had to poke at my WAR to tell her to move after one time I got double sluiced. Much more consistently at 1300-1350 going into add phase, too, due primarily to the rotation being hecka smooth (though I can't be sure how much of that can be attributed to my comfort level with the fight getting better). I'm dropping a CT on one hand just as health bars change into 4th>phleb>BL+B4B>basically full opener but with a FT combo to finish before flopping to other hand for CT and to chase with Leg+Jump+Geir during the last combo before phase. It works pretty well. The smooth rotation in p2 makes me like it a lot. The fact I hit 1500 on first transition a few times doesn't hurt, either.

I'm still thoroughly confused what Hak does to manage 1450-1475 by end of hands, though.