Lets nerf WAR :D

[Giantbane]

Damage and utility should not be the defining elements of tank classes, since that creates incongruities in performance that lead to scenarios not unlike what we're seeing right now. The metagame isn't the only source of the problem; how SE approached tank design is a part of it too.

This said, my own concern would be relative damage between tanks and DPS. That's why I'd be hesitant to buff PLD damage and simply would lower tank emphasis on DPS a bit while making all 3 perform close to each other numberswise. Gameplay choices are attached to this, since by design PLD, WAR and DRK are clearly not meant to be tanking outside of Grit/Defiance/Shield Oath, and I have a feeling part of the issue would go away if you somehow forced all three to full-time their tank stances when main tanking (if I recall, Defiance WAR was pulling slightly ahead of a Shield Oath PLD back in ARR).

The next item would be utility, which is rather sparse on WAR with the exception of how strong Storm's Path is (which I suspect is a reason for WAR being guaranteed a raid spot). This is where you need to homogenize a bit. Either make Halone and Delirium provide the same effect, or make Storm's Path a buff that only affects the WAR.

I disagree. Sitting around in tank stance is boring and requires no thought or skill. Stance dancing means more interesting gameplay for both the tank and the healers.

It also isn't required unless you're in savage. Everything else you can sit in tank stance all day, or stance dance as you see fit.

It's fine to have differences in damage and utility. But the WAR clearly brings the best of both right now which is the problem. Particularly for the PLD who is way behind in Utility, AoE DPS, shield oath DPS, threat generation and TP management.

[Duelle]

I disagree. Sitting around in tank stance is boring and requires no thought or skill. Stance dancing means more interesting gameplay for both the tank and the healers.

I don't see anything interesting or skillful in having an extra button to push. Your argument would have worked with vanilla WoW warriors because they had actual utility locked behind stances (our interrupt could only be used in Berserker Stance, our fear break/immunity could only be used in Berserker Stance, our stun could only be used in Defensive Stance), and even then it was clunky design that limited gameplay in certain situations (fear break macros were very unreliable, for example).

Also consider that forcing PLD, DRK and WAR to full-time Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance while main tanking helps keep MT DPS on a leash. It'd also be a step in relieving tank DPS from the duty of carrying groups to clears for DPS checks (since that's supposed to be the DPS' responsibility, not the tank's). You'd also be eliminating a factor to balance encounters around since it'd create a specific margin of expected damage from the main tank. Quite a few positives just from nipping that problem in the bud.

It also isn't required unless you're in savage.

And as I've repeatedly said, this shit rolls downhill. It won't surprise me to eventually see people in DF runs giving tanks crap for sticking to their tank stances instead of switching like the "pros" do. This is the same playerbase that fostered WARs in 2.0 that would tell me to MT because "lol war cant tank" HM Garuda.

[dank1]

People like crying nerf til everythings nerfed to hell then they quit because classes feel dull, the only thing worth reading on that list is point 6, the war enmity combo also being its highest hitting, makes no sense as an OT, being that aggro is ripped off like crazy from the mt (specislly a non aggro combo using tank like drk.

The (il)logical thing to do would be to buff storms eye/path combo a bit more than BB combo. Why? There is no logic as to why but drk has the same thing going for it so why not? It wouldnt affect war at all other than applying storms path wouldnt seem as worthless (not saying it is, but in content where you dont need it you dont apply it) and BB combo would only be used to gen enmity

[Lashe]

This thread should just be called "Why the Square Enix Forums shouldn't help design this game".

[SpookyGhost]

This thread should just be called "Why the Square Enix Forums shouldn't help design this game".

This is my kinda post. ( ' - ' )b

[JohnMccain]

If warrior is so overpowered, why weren't the first clears of Alexander Savage consisted of double warrior then?

[Synestra]

WAR is pretty strong in PvP but oh dear SMN make it stop.

kinda off-topic but damn WAR/PLD is fucking awesome duo in FL, that setup eats everything alive when they have godlike synegry. Stun-locking + awesome burst melts everything in mere seconds, also if PLD covers WAR he soaks all dots and stuns thus allowing WAR to become unstoppable killing machine in middle of enemy pack D:

[SpookyGhost]

kinda off-topic but damn WAR/PLD is fucking awesome duo in FL, that setup eats everything alive when they have godlike synegry. Stun-locking + awesome burst melts everything in mere seconds, also if PLD covers WAR he soaks all dots and stuns thus allowing WAR to become unstoppable killing machine in middle of enemy pack D:

https://youtu.be/39j5v8jlndM?t=134

[konpachizaraki]

If warrior is so overpowered, why weren't the first clears of Alexander Savage consisted of double warrior then?

because the limit break meter will fill slower than usual if you have 2 player with the same job, and the effect is becoming larger if there are more than 2 players from the same job
if that rule/system doesn't exist it might or even most likely happen

[JohnMccain]

because the limit break meter will fill slower than usual if you have 2 player with the same job, and the effect is becoming larger if there are more than 2 players from the same job
if that rule/system doesn't exist it might happen
and that is why pre-2.1 people were using double PLD and double WHM because that rule isn't applied yet that time

BG cleared t8 before anyone else using 3 monks?