How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

Yea, swap neck, belt and feet. Pretty nice stats: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RNJI

I can't think of many/any situations where I would recommend someone wear the 200 eso boots when they are holding the 210 gordian ones. The strength and vitality gain alone makes the gordian a better option 9 times out of 10, with the 1 outstanding circumstance being when that is the ONLY WAY for you to make up the 12 accuracy you need to make cap.

[Strident]

I did some math and in-field testing on the best in slot builds provided at the bottom of the original guide and have concluded, based on the (perhaps outdated?) provided Dragoon damage models, that Dervy's Best-in-Slot configurations is almost certainly not optimal.

To perform the comparison, I checked FFXIVGuild's provided BiS gear and found that the skill speed difference and accuracy differences were negligible (2 Skill Speed and 45 Accuracy in favor of FFXIVGuild's build). The big difference is in 116 CRIT vs 156 DET, and the difference based on the given CRIT and DET values comes out to ~4.4% extra damage in favor CRIT, which indicates to me that CRIT is grossly more powerful than DET point for point.

This also leads me to believe that Ariyala's build also cannot be BiS as it is down Crit and Skill Speed for DET (61 Crit and 27 Skill Speed vs 126 DET). I performed the same comparison with FFXIVGuild's BiS slot, while making the assumption the Skill Speed difference of 27 would not affect DPS (I highly doubt that). The difference finds that even ignoring Skill Speed, the FFXIVGuild BiS build deals ~2.1% more damage based on the current model.

Jack's build is one that I can't decide on. The difference is 30 Crit vs 29 DET and 44 Skill Speed (solely the Gordian Wristband of Slaying vs the Fabled Bracelet of Slaying). Of course the Crit beats out the DET but I am not sure on the Skill Speed. In any case, of the listed BiS load outs, Jack's is the best, with the exception of the Gordian Wristband being potentially interchangeable with the Fabled Bracelet.

[ish007xx]

a new thread again lol

[JackFross]

(snip)

You missed the discussions where all of these were brought up.

That was pretty much the consensus, but the damage differentials were all decided among most/all of us to be so small/negligible that they just sorta don't matter. The set that's attributed to me is the "technical" best in slot based solely on stat weights. Dervy's is a more consistent version (more det at the cost of ss and crit) of mine, and the other set is low on ss but technically higher weight than either of the others.

It's hard to settle on one set as being "best" when you're looking at numbers on the scale of 1500 and seriously coming in to say that one set will give you +30 dps over another. That +30 dps is literally one dropped Blood. It's one flubbed Wash Away backflip. It's not something that I feel comfortable saying definitively one way or the other, especially when people have pings such that 606 ss isn't enough for them to get 3 GSK per minute and other people who find 700 ss to just be unwieldy because of how fast you become.


The discussion of best in slot this patch is a lot more nuanced than just "which set is definitively the best" because that question doesn't exactly have an answer that is very satisfying, due to the way the different stats work and play with each other and the person using them.

I mean, this is the set that I'm personally building for, which is Dervy's set with the weapon swapped. It's weaker, yes, but I much prefer the grace I get from higher skill speed; it gives ME higher gains in the long run because I end up less self-conscious about losing Blood to a Geirskogul or two and end up actually squeezing them out.


That said, what set are you referencing? FFXIVGuild's?


///Oh, it's the same as mine but with 700 accuracy? That's silly. The det/ss is strictly better than the acc/crit. There's no question to be had there. There's not near enough crit to make up for the gains you get from the other secondaries. Otherwise, you're telling me that the raw difference in damage power between 30 crit and 29 determination is more powerful than the gains from 44 skill speed. I don't think that's something that should even be in question. There's no way that's the case.

[Greyfrost]

Urgh, stupid lodestone won't allow me to change the my character's Job to DRG so I can import the set I'm using.

Since I would like to ask which Eso gear would I need to buy now, I will have 1,160 Eso by the time I cap this week's.

My aim is to have enough accuracy for savage, but upgrading any of my accessories to increase skill speed results in lowering the acc :c

EDIT: Should be close to this http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RNW6


Thanks for the help o/

[SunnyHirose]

Oh, we're talking BiS again? So, I made a chart, trying to be a cheapskate. Nothing doin'; Baked Pipira Pira is king.



How accurate are these DPS estimates? Well, Dervy's current damage formulas--which are used here, but were calculated from much weaker gear--seem to underestimate AAs by a bit and underestimate potency by a very small bit. It is at this point I wonder if there is merit to considering stats to be very slightly quadratic or something, since the crafter formula people seem to :S

And skill speed is still slightly mysterious (I haven't gotten around to testing it as thoroughly as I'd like), but perhaps by coincidence my rotational potency estimation (which depends on it) seems to be reasonably on point when compared to my performance using actual gear and measuring damage per AA/potency directly from the game.

Anyway, BiS DPS might actually hit an average of 1500. Maybe.

[Hakmatic]

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RNWS that's what I'm going use for a4, one reason is I have all that gear except weapon and it's cheap food. I'll use baked pira for 1-3. I'm switching back to monk at some point in time so I'm not going be trying for any other Dragoon gear. I thought I'd share this since it does use a cheaper food which might appeal to some.

[Kapiz]

first it was easymode, and now dervy ;_;7
RIP in piece.

[Strident]

Otherwise, you're telling me that the raw difference in damage power between 30 crit and 29 determination is more powerful than the gains from 44 skill speed. I don't think that's something that should even be in question. There's no way that's the case.

I think that asking whether or not the bolded statement is true is a valid question. Sometimes silly things turn out to be the most optimal alignment because it is more powerful in another specific area. This is why I wanted to avoid making any conclusions or hypothesis' on your build in comparison, because I am unsure of how to mathematically value Skill Speed. I would like to believe that 29 DET and 44 Skill Speed is superior to 30 Crit and an overload on accuracy, but I refrain from making that judgement. You seem to be confident that it is, and that's valuable information for me; how so exactly? I would be intrigued to know how I should value Skill Speed and in what context.

I also acknowledge that the mathematics I based my calculations on are (which were provided in the OP) are outdated; a more accurate assessment of the numbers would require more research.

That being said, this consideration was purposed solely to investigate flat hitting power in the comparison between Crit and Determination, which finds that every point of Crit is worth at least two points of DET for the purposes of DRG BiS. When comparing FFXIVGuild's configuration against the other two, I thus found that the flat hitting power of the former is significantly superior despite its Skill Speed advantage against both, which I thought was important. If we use 1500 as the baseline, the ~4.4% differential can lead to a 66 DPS increase.

Is this still true? I don't know and I would very much so like to hear about this.

[Jin_Asanagi]

That set works just fine.

If, however, you're looking to drop some SS, swap the belt and neck for the opposite pieces.
http://puu.sh/kjJF1/453b22f808.png

Well snap, I've an upgraded eso neck already...time to break the bad news to my raidies and make them all choke me to death. Thankies. :c