More Horizontal Progression please

[Iagainsti]

Yes they are. However, the problem is this.

#wayoveryourhead it seems. Back on point;

I made my point back on page 3, so no point expanding here, just as happy to log in, do my roulettes, some pvp, and work on my desynths/mining. The system of FFXIV vertical progression has been in place since the launch, and if you know how to work the system, it's easy to work around.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

#wayoveryourhead it seems. Back on point;

I made my point back on page 3, so no point expanding here, just as happy to log in, do my roulettes, some pvp, and work on my desynths/mining. The system of FFXIV vertical progression has been in place since the launch, and if you know how to work the system, it's easy to work around.

That is fine for you. I am happy you enjoy that.

On SWG.
- SWG had no levels when it first came out. So all content was relevant and often enough you needed to do the earlier dungeons to farm gear or components because the best component resources came from lower level dungeons and creatures.
- I explored the dynamic world for random tapes and upgrades. Farmed creatures for gear which I could reverse engineer for better gear.
- Farmed Schematics.
- Had 25 fully contested dynamic dungeons to do. No duty finder so you needed to make your own groups and interact with other players. You also needed to get buffs so you needed to visit a dancer/docter/musician and an officer later in the game's life.
- Had a full changing world to explore.
- The worlds are huge, running across them takes 2-3 hours if your walking.
- Make your own city, build anywhere on the world and place down houses, become a Mayor (actually a class!)
- Crafted Items and Crafted gear you could spend hours trying to experiment.
- PvP in the galactic civil war. This is nothing like pvp in the other games. You "opt-in" and PvP can happen anywhere in the world. Even in cities. The side which controls a city has "faction npcs" and they can go overt and declare themselves as pvp right in the city. However attacking players have to come in from other places to get overt. So defenders always have an advantage. Defenders also have NPCs in the city. PvP is not instanced and all Open World.


- PvP Ranks, which were real ranks. However they were not a really long grind like FFXIV. However if you do not pvp the ranks begin to go down until rank 0. However you only need ranks to buy the gear, not use it. So if you get high rank grinding it out quick you can get the gear you want then stop caring about ranks.
- Space PvP, you can declare your faction in space then fight other ships. SWG space PvP combat was some of the best space and ship combat i've seen in any game today.
- Completely randomized resources and item drops per server for hours of entertainment.
- Having to go around the world farming monsters "Monster Hunter" style to skin them because I was a scout and "Skins" were required to make armor. Bones were as well.
- Decorating and taking care of my house.
- Galactic Civil War: Go to any city every 2 hours there is an event in the world where a city is attacked by a faction. Factions that win control that city and if you perform and defend or attack the city you get special benefits.
- Going to space.
- Go do a Zombie Event on Dathomir which was a halloween event they added to the game but stayed in the game. It was a Mini-game in itself and turned the game into a zombie survival horror. For doing the event (WHICH WAS very hard .. not many people could do it.) you got a special Mini-Bike Swoop mount and appearance gear. It wasn't a "GRIND" The event is actually only 3 hours, it was just so hard only a few people could do it.
- Farming for randomized ship parts in space that were also random level.
- Reverse engineering the ship parts with a ship wright.?
- Asking for the latest ship upgrades.
- Since there was no duty finder: Helping people with quests.
- Roleplaying and building a city.
- Using the "Storymode" content to make my own stories, quests, events and rewards.
- Making missions other players could do for rewards.
- Player events people made with crafted rewards.
- Farming Death Watch Bunker for super rare Mandalorian Armor.
- Farming Blacksuns on Yavin IV for Rare Blacksun armor pieces.
- Hunting people across the Galaxy (Players, actually going in and going around killing other players) for bounties.

Social Classes and alts:
- Dancing on my alt for money, doing docter buffs on my alt for money
- Making and performing music on my alt to buff people for money.
- Image Designer (a class designed for customizing other players.) You customize and change players appearance for money. Like a plastic surgeon.

There was just.. SO MUCH TO DO. I can GO on for hours AND hours. That is why the game was so fun. It wasn't just a "game" it was a world.

I was not a crafter, but it had the best crafting system in any MMO to date.

SWG was a game designed where you needed multiple players to help you.

The PvP was well balanced for the most part but world changing. Imagine being able to play Garleans and going into "Ul'dah" and literally taking over the city. If you attacked an enemy PvP, even if your not pvp flagged you gained a temporary flag which allowed opposing factions to attack you even if you are not flagged for PvP. Which made the game immersive, but if you killed enough people in a city you could take it over. Which taxed people hardcore until you took the city back. Imagine 50% tax on all items in the market board and 100% tax for repair. Fighting in the streets of Ul'dah also made events which put the cities on guard but it made the game feel more real since all PvP was open world. SWG until the very end of its life had little to no instances.

[TheUltimate3]

SWG Rant

As a fellow, former SWG Player (Ahazi!) I would like to point out that telling someone how SWG was is pointless.

As great a game it was, the game's numbers overall were abysmal and it would, in no way, survive the MMO market of today. Hell it barely survived the MMO Market of it's day.

Added to that, the two games are, by design different. SWG was a sandbox, through and through and XIV is not. You can turn a sandbox into a vertical game with ease, but the same cannot be said about a vertical one.

[Zarzak]

#wayoveryourhead it seems. Back on point;

I made my point back on page 3, so no point expanding here, just as happy to log in, do my roulettes, some pvp, and work on my desynths/mining. The system of FFXIV vertical progression has been in place since the launch, and if you know how to work the system, it's easy to work around.

My point to this would be.. But does ANY OF THIS improve your main? That is the problem.

Even pvp.. You get rk 50 do a little dance then realize "welp.. too bad all this pvp gear is worthless because they somehow think it makes sense for higher rank pvpers to have an advantage over lower rank pvpers." I pvp now for my esoteric instead of expert roulette because I find it more fun... But every time I buy a new piece of pvp gear and it goes instantly to the "glamour stash" I die a little inside. A brand new top pvp tier item is COMPLETELY worthless as a piece of equipment. They could put no stats on it and it would be as useful as it is now.


I'm not saying to you roulettes/pvp/desynth/mining isn't fun.. That is great that you enjoy it. But I would wager a majority of players want to be able to pick 2 points in their play time and say "I am stronger now that I was then" Sadly XIV does not provide anything to make that happen.

The day my main hit ilvl 190 is the day he stopped having opportunity to improve in any way besides 4 events a week. Anything else I do is just to be a completionist. I have pld/whm to 50.. I HATE pld/whm.. But I did it because the alternative was paying for a game I don't play and sinking undetermined amounts of money into buying a console and some single player games to keep me busy in down time when I don't have any RL things to take care of and the wife/daughter are busy.

SWG was a game designed where you needed multiple players to help you

Assuming that was about crafting...

When the workshop for FC crafting was released I was excited "oh this could be cool group crafting".......................

I bought a stack of iron rivets off a merchant, crafted some steel, clicked a turn in button and then we all had to be in the same room to see a 5 second cutscene. Literally the only "group crafting" was watching that cutscene.. You need 1 person with lvl 50 crafts to make everything and 3 other people on lvl 1 crafters to sit afk in the room.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

My point to this would be.. But does ANY OF THIS improve your main? That is the problem.

Even pvp.. You get rk 50 do a little dance then realize "welp.. too bad all this pvp gear is worthless because they somehow think it makes sense for higher rank pvpers to have an advantage over lower rank pvpers." I pvp now for my esoteric instead of expert roulette because I find it more fun... But every time I buy a new piece of pvp gear and it goes instantly to the "glamour stash" I die a little inside. A brand new top pvp tier item is COMPLETELY worthless as a piece of equipment. They could put no stats on it and it would be as useful as it is now.


I'm not saying to you roulettes/pvp/desynth/mining isn't fun.. That is great that you enjoy it. But I would wager a majority of players want to be able to pick 2 points in their play time and say "I am stronger now that I was then" Sadly XIV does not provide anything to make that happen.

The day my main hit ilvl 190 is the day he stopped having opportunity to improve in any way besides 4 events a week. Anything else I do is just to be a completionist. I have pld/whm to 50.. I HATE pld/whm.. But I did it because the alternative was paying for a game I don't play and sinking undetermined amounts of money into buying a console and some single player games to keep me busy in down time when I don't have any RL things to take care of and the wife/daughter are busy.



Assuming that was about crafting...

When the workshop for FC crafting was released I was excited "oh this could be cool group crafting".......................

I bought a stack of iron rivets off a merchant, crafted some steel, clicked a turn in button and then we all had to be in the same room to see a 5 second cutscene. Literally the only "group crafting" was watching that cutscene.. You need 1 person with lvl 50 crafts to make everything and 3 other people on lvl 1 crafters to sit afk in the room.

Crafting in SWG would take a 60 page spreadsheet. So I don't think I could possibly explain it that way. However what I can say is a few words.
- Sub Sub Components.
- Sub Components crafted from Sub Sub Components.
- Components crafted from Sub components.
- Enhancement slots to add further customization to said items.
- Assembly/Experimentation.
- Being able to put Experimentation points in every sub sub, sub, component. End Result Greatly determined end stat.
- Completely Randomized Resources, PER server. Each server had its own resources.
- Being able to name and color crafted items and fully experiment on them.
- Item Decay - No item lasted forever. So even super duper legendary items left the game. This made crafting relevant forever.

Each server had its own completely randomized resources spawns which took place around the worlds. Crafters had to go around the worlds surveying it to find the best resources which could take hours.

They placed down harvestors and had to hire combat players to protect them for hours as they mined their resources.

Crafted players even had their own gear like combat players to craft and mine gear.

Servers had their own unique resources so some items were not even able to be made on some servers. T21s were not able to be made on Tarquinas for over a year because of this.

SWG to this day, has the most deep and complex crafting system out of any MMO by far.

[Iagainsti]

Even pvp.. You get rk 50 do a little dance then realize "welp.. too bad all this pvp gear is worthless because they somehow think it makes sense for higher rank pvpers to have an advantage over lower rank pvpers." I pvp now for my esoteric instead of expert roulette because I find it more fun... every time I buy a new piece of pvp gear and it goes instantly to the "glamour stash" I die a little inside. A brand new top pvp tier item is worthless as a piece of equipment.

If you have hit rank 50 and acquired all the 180 pvp gear, congratz! you are now ready for Ranked Wolve's Den. As to having a better advantage, outside of ranked WD you have no advantage gear wise over a lower ranked player, morale doesn't count and you can easily mix n match a set out of 160s/170s that excludes acc/parry so I don't know what you meant there. As to lower tiered pvp gear being "glam trash" sorry, but you should've hopped the PVP wagon 1 1/2 years ago when it was relevant.

[Zarzak]

If you have hit rank 50 and acquired all the 180 pvp gear, congratz! you are now ready for Ranked Wolve's Den. As to having a better advantage, outside of ranked WD you have no advantage gear wise over a lower ranked player, morale doesn't count and you can easily mix n match a set out of 160s/170s that excludes acc/parry so I don't know what you meant there. As to lower tiered pvp gear being "glam trash" sorry, but you should've hopped the PVP wagon 1 1/2 years ago when it was relevant.

Well besides you just agreeing with me in the bolded comment...

Yay Wolves Den the content no one does and isn't even lvl 60 so yes.. the top tier pvp gear is still worthless.

They made pvp gear irrelevant in frontlines what 1 patch after it was added? I'm not talking lower tiered pvp gear I'm talking top tier.

Black/White Griffon, Behemoth, whatever other sets are called are all glamour trash since the day they were introduced to the game.

There was a couple months where WD was a thing because people were prepping for them to add pvp content that was actually good.. and when they did they made the pvp content not use pvp gear. Cause sense.

[Iagainsti]

Well besides you just agreeing with me in the bolded comment...

Yay Wolves Den the content no one does and isn't even lvl 60 so yes.. the top tier pvp gear is still worthless.
They made pvp gear irrelevant in frontlines what 1 patch after it was added? I'm not talking lower tiered pvp gear I'm talking top tier.

Black/White Griffon, Behemoth, whatever other sets are called are all glamour trash since the day they were introduced to the game.

Agree? That statement was a retort to your statement saying "somehow makes sense for higher ranked players to have an advantage over lower ranked players" Read up^^
My 724 matches of WD shows your OPINION of WD is exactly that: your opinion and not the truth. As to Frontlines, the hotfix to not include morale was to allow a pvp mode that caters to all players; again if you have the rank 50 180 gear, it's still a wicked set to wear in FL as you will have the optimal stats per piece for your chosen class without having to mix n match 160/170/190/200. Also, it was implemented for true pvp players who wanted to get ready for the upcoming Ranked matches. Glad I've had the time to get sets for my WAR/MCH/ and soon BLK so I have options to propose when we start getting teams together. You just can't see the forest for the trees mi amigo.

[Zarzak]

My 724 matches of WD shows your OPINION of WD is exactly that: your opinion and not the truth.

724 since lvl 60 or are you including the hundreds done before frontlines even existed.

It may be an opinion to you but over here on Levi it is a FACT. We have to set up groups to pvp against each other if we want out weekly callenge log for wolves den because the queues are HOURS long.

[Iagainsti]

724 since lvl 60 or are you including the hundreds done before frontlines even existed.

It may be an opinion to you but over here on Levi it is a FACT. We have to set up groups to pvp against each other if we want out weekly callenge log for wolves den because the queues are HOURS long.

fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

• a thing that is indisputably the case.
  "she lacks political experience—a fact that becomes clear when she appears in public"
  synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty; More truth, verity, gospel
  "it is a fact that the water is polluted"

I'm done, you're filibustering your debate #byeFelicia