Why is BRD considered "support"

[Coatl]

I really just don't like the idea of my TP/MP songs hamstringing my dps. I would rather the class as a whole be balanced around using those songs and numbers adjusted rather then eat a 15% damage penalty while they are active.

Actually this seems like the best route to go because people would be less reluctant to use those songs in random groups because they wont take a penalty while they are up.

BRD/MCH are in the same exact spot Bard has always been when progressing through new raid content. Despite their overall lower damage output vs every other class you still need MCH/BRD if you are to raid due to TP shortages being an actual thing you have to deal with. They bring too much utility, sustain and resource to a group to replace. AST buffs are random so don't count on them. Goad is only for one person and you will probably only get to use it on three people in the span of a raid instance.

If people are reluctant to use songs when they need to then they are just bad bards. No decent bard would look at a healer who is soon to be OOM and probably cause a wipe and be like "man, I REALLY want to help you out bro but muh deeps!" It just doesn't happen.

[Malevicton]

So why not just pick a different class? Seems like you don't like the core of brd. Like wanting to play blm but not liking cast times, or mnk but not liking positionals.

It's been brd's identity since 2.0 (technically before, but that doesn't really count). If it were unbalanced it might change. It's not gonna change because you personally don't like it.

[coldheart21]

Isn't NIN considered to be a support melee dps? I haven't leveled mine yet but I read that in a couple posts.

[AskaRay]

If people are reluctant to use songs when they need to then they are just bad bards. No decent bard would look at a healer who is soon to be OOM and probably cause a wipe and be like "man, I REALLY want to help you out bro but muh deeps!" It just doesn't happen.

This..thisthisthis

Sing your gosh-darn songs, bards.

[Alahra]

Isn't NIN considered to be a support melee dps? I haven't leveled mine yet but I read that in a couple posts.

The developers haven't really called it that directly (whereas they have referred to BRD/MCH as support a time or two); however, especially in HW, they do have unique utility in enmity control, so they've sort of commonly become known as "support."

[RiceisNice]

....

I can't even recall a time I had to use TP turret in savage. It's always been mana, and even that has been downplayed in use when we get more accustomed to mechanics and the healers become more efficient.

[Azazua_azura]

as a person who has played bard to 50, the dps loss isn't noticeable. and unless its in a raid or extreme or w/e u won't need to use it in fights unless something goes wrong. best time to use those is after a trash group or when dps/mages are 50% mp/tp trhen turn it off. Bards in rpg have always been support style, and there is nothing wrong with it. All groups need to be balanced in roles or it gets messy. I recall dcuo, all ppl did was play dps (powers had 2 styles dps or job style which was tank heal support) and all ppl did was use dps stance. No one worked together.

(this was partly due to the built in parser leaderboard but enough on that no wanna derail thread)

Bard is a fun job to play, ff14 bard beats ff11 bard, in ff11 all we got was a paper knife and all we did was sing/play the harp or play the flute. ff11 bard dps was... well it didn't exist.

[Wadoka]

I blame D&D. It's all Gary Gygax's fault.

"Oh look. A Bard. How... cute."

[Sylve]

Then I will say I think the developers are boneheads. I don't see why they think our difference in utility is worth a 15% damage difference.

Bards and Machinists are the only 2 Jobs that have the ability to provide consistent, reliable and on demand TP/MP Regen with no cooldown outside of MP Regen (which can be assisted via Ewers and MP Pots).
Bard is till the only one able to provide a constant Magic Damage effect, Though the MCH effects are quite powerful when used despite the lower uptime.
They also happen to fall under the Support category because of this.

The main reason their DPS falls shy of other classes is their ease of damage output coupled with a high degree of mobility. Less so with Minuet and Gauss to be sure, but its still significantly less damage loss for a BRD/MCH to constantly move from AoEs.
You know, there was a time when BRDs were the only acceptable DPS and a Melee was brought only to use Limit Break. Those were terrible times.

Lets look it at it from this perspective. Imagine for a moment that all DPS classes had identical DPS output with no change in utility skills.
Now for BRD and MCH you have what is basically a DRG that attacks from range, while moving semi freely while also providing resource benefits to allies and damage bonuses for casters and each other while also providing damage downs on top of what a Tank brings to the fight.
Why would you take anything else?

[ckc22]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that their DPS should be higher with Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel active than it is now (probably another 10% or so, but that's just a gut number).

Just increase the WD on their weapons. The gap between ranged weapons and everyone else has gotten even worse since HW. I can't remember the exact numbers but the # of ilvls behind they are has increased in 3.0.