Dear Yoshi P: What is your vision?

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

edit: I think it's a good idea to implement content for both types of player, but the way yoshi conveys himself makes it look like he has absolutely no idea whatsoever.

Yeah because you make him sound that way. Here's my example.

Yoshi-P:
Some players like instances and some don't but I want to make a world where no matter your play style there will be something for you to do and there won't be any limitations to that.

[User201109011315]

Yeah because you make him sound that way. Here's my example.

Yoshi-P:
Some players like instances and some don't but I want to make a world where no matter your play style there will be something for you to do and there won't be any limitations to that.

Well, just to use an example, Blade&Soul and Guild Wars 2 decided flat-out that they wouldn't have dedicated healers because the game designers held to the principle that healers weren't needed and would hurt the game. Sometimes exclusion is necessary in order to make a good game.

Sometimes implementing stuff just so everyone can find enjoyment isn't always a good idea, because certain playstyles conflict with one another. We see this already on the forums, some people bought this game because they wanted what it was not, and other people are angry because the game they bought is being changed beyond recognition.

This is why vision is needed, so gamers can choose to play games where the vision meshes with their own gameplay preferences.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Well, just to use an example, Blade&Soul and Guild Wars 2 decided flat-out that they wouldn't have dedicated healers because the game designers held to the principle that healers weren't needed and would hurt the game. Sometimes exclusion is necessary in order to make a good game.

Sometimes implementing stuff just so everyone can find enjoyment isn't always a good idea, because certain playstyles conflict with one another. We see this already on the forums, some people bought this game because they wanted what it was not, and other people are angry because the game they bought is being changed beyond recognition.

This is why vision is needed, so gamers can choose to play games where the vision meshes with their own gameplay preferences.

Yeah, I agree he can't do it for everything. That's why you're getting up set over the changes to the armoury system. But the people getting angry need to understand the game is changing and if it not want you want then you need to move along. Yes I know you spent $80 on the CE but I spent money on many things that didn't turn out the way I wanted and I couldn't get my money back.

Anyway I haven't heard anything actually angry at the content they're releasing. Most people enjoyed the NMs and most people enjoyed the dungeons. Also they're not getting rid of guildleves and they're bringing the hamlet defense battles. I can pretty much say they're bring a good balance of open world and instanced content.

[Azurymber]

Yeah because you make him sound that way. Here's my example.

Yoshi-P:
Some players like instances and some don't but I want to make a world where no matter your play style there will be something for you to do and there won't be any limitations to that.

And why would that work? Wouldn't every game pull that off if it was easy? Because it would guarantee them a bigger player base? But they don't.... I wonder why.....

[Konachibi]

And why would that work? Wouldn't every game pull that off if it was easy? Because it would guarantee them a bigger player base? But they don't.... I wonder why.....

Because usually when an MMO is released it's in it's finished form, and the player-base consists of people looking for content that the game holds, and then from that point on things are simple added that usually revolves around that kind of content.

In the case of FFXIV, because it's being 're-made' from it's original design, it allows Yoshi to see what parts people do and don't like about what the game currently holds, get rid of things that nobody likes, tweak things that people do like, and then add things that people want. People on this want both open-world and instanced content.
In the case of Warcraft people wanted mostly just instanced content, so world bosses and things were eventually phased out as no one bothered with them. Warhammer Online concentrated on open world PvP aspects because that's what many of it's players wanted more of, and so on.

They could try putting EVERYTHING in the game so that it'd appeal to everyone, but then that usually causes problems, as people who like one kind of content may hate other type of content, and sometimes there'll be something pop up that'll force them to play the content they don't like in order to get what they want. Ontop of that you may end up with a large player-base but they'll be a huge mix of 'do likes' and 'don't likes' and often these groups end up argueing because of how much their opinion differs between different parts of the game.

[Azurymber]

Because usually when an MMO is released it's in it's finished form, and the player-base consists of people looking for content that the game holds, and then from that point on things are simple added that usually revolves around that kind of content.

In the case of FFXIV, because it's being 're-made' from it's original design, it allows Yoshi to see what parts people do and don't like about what the game currently holds, get rid of things that nobody likes, tweak things that people do like, and then add things that people want. People on this want both open-world and instanced content.
In the case of Warcraft people wanted mostly just instanced content, so world bosses and things were eventually phased out as no one bothered with them. Warhammer Online concentrated on open world PvP aspects because that's what many of it's players wanted more of, and so on.

I see your point.
But others can do the same thing you claim FFXIV has the opportunity to do via expansion packs
Further all games beta test and many make significant changes based on player responses in beta tests (SW TOR for example cancelled this weeks beta because they have so much to do based on previous ones)
Unlike this game who beta tested and then literally released exactly what we had in beta (which surprised almost everyone)

And there is no way for Yoshi to see what people like and don't like without statistically accurate player polls and those are nearly impossible.

[Konachibi]

I see your point.
But others can do the same thing you claim FFXIV has the opportunity to do via expansion packs
Further all games beta test and many make significant changes based on player responses in beta tests (SW TOR for example cancelled this weeks beta because they have so much to do based on previous ones)
Unlike this game who beta tested and then literally released exactly what we had in beta (which surprised almost everyone)

And there is no way for Yoshi to see what people like and don't like without statistically accurate player polls and those are nearly impossible.

Actually to discover what people do and don't like, Yoshi added forums that community reps looked through to see what people are praising about the game and what people are raging about in the game. Forums are an excellent way to see what kind of player-base your game has and what they like about the game, even if it does get a lot of flamers and trolls.

This in turn helps them decide on what kind of content to add to the game sooner rather than later, to make everyone happy.

[Azurymber]

Actually to discover what people do and don't like, Yoshi added forums that community reps looked through to see what people are praising about the game and what people are raging about in the game. Forums are an excellent way to see what kind of player-base your game has and what they like about the game, even if it does get a lot of flamers and trolls.

This in turn helps them decide on what kind of content to add to the game sooner rather than later, to make everyone happy.

from a scientific standpoint if he did this the game will probably fail.

There is a way to go about determining peoples opinions on things to get unbiased results.

A forum results in VERY biased results. You get mainly extreme opinions with moderate people pushed to the side. Those extreme opinions are usually far from what people really want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_%28statistics%29

If they are seriously basing all their decisions off their forums then they probably have less than 10% chance at success. Because any half-competent corporation knows how to handle statistics.

A good example of bias is the following (a result of sampling bias, similar to what this forum has):
"In the early days of opinion polling, the American Literary Digest magazine collected over two million postal surveys and predicted that the Republican candidate in the U.S. presidential election, Alf Landon, would beat the incumbent president, Franklin Roosevelt by a large margin. The result was the exact opposite. " (read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samplin...rical_examples)

If SE seriously based their actions on these boards, its very likely they will end up doing exactly the opposite of what they intended due to bias.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

from a scientific standpoint if he did this the game will probably fail.

There is a way to go about determining peoples opinions on things to get unbiased results.

A forum results in VERY biased results. You get mainly extreme opinions with moderate people pushed to the side. Those extreme opinions are usually far from what people really want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_%28statistics%29

If they are seriously basing all their decisions off their forums then they probably have less than 10% chance at success. Because any half-competent corporation knows how to handle statistics.

A good example of bias is the following (a result of sampling bias, similar to what this forum has):
"In the early days of opinion polling, the American Literary Digest magazine collected over two million postal surveys and predicted that the Republican candidate in the U.S. presidential election, Alf Landon, would beat the incumbent president, Franklin Roosevelt by a large margin. The result was the exact opposite. " (read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samplin...rical_examples)

If SE seriously based their actions on these boards, its very likely they will end up doing exactly the opposite of what they intended due to bias.

So in other words, they shouldn't listen to you?

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

And why would that work? Wouldn't every game pull that off if it was easy? Because it would guarantee them a bigger player base? But they don't.... I wonder why.....

Yeah, but with content (at least for this game) it's pretty easy. Just alternate between open world content and instances. Which seems like what they're doing. They seem to be putting their foot down on certain things anyway, like the claiming issue and crafting.