Please stop asking for paladin DPS buffs.

[OPneedNerfs]

You obviously don't understand a single point here and/or are a very narrow-sighted person.

Wanting less homogenisation doesn't mean reverting WAR to 2.0 at all, and doesn't mean keeping PLD as it is right now either. It means that yeah, we need job changes, we need balance, but we don't want the jobs to be the same, balance can be brought without making every job the same. Like for example, instead of increasing PLD's DPS, they could make them have a party-wide buff that increases damage by X%, which would match the difference in DPS between a PLD MT and a DRK MT. There is plenty of solutions to balance the jobs without making them all totally the same.

Guess what your suggestion boils down to? Increasing PLD DPS. Seriously, stop fumbling about with the schemantics and arguing for the sake of arguing. I'd turn around and say YOU are much more narrow minded and unable to see the big picture.

Also, guess what, WAR also has something that increases party damage. That's right, their slashing debuff.

So if the TS is TRULY against "homogenization", each job should have flaws the other job makes up for.

But noooooo, when it comes to bringing the defenses of WAR back to 2.0 levels, everyone loses their minds because "we won't be relevant" while asking to be brought up closer to a WAR's offensive capabilities, they bring out "but muh uniqueness" and "Then they'll play the same".

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

[B]The people who post solid suggestions that increase PLD's raid effectiveness while retaining its defensive heart are a vast minority, from what I've seen while lurking here. *

Nice read. This is what the class needs IMHO.

edit: the people asking for more raid utility / raid dps increase abilities from paladin are asking for indirect dps increases for the class. Warriors (with the exception of the slashing debuff) bring individual damage and utility for themselves. In a perfect world, Paladin would bring less individual damage but more utility (possibly raid damage) for the rest of the group.

#CalmDown #InnerBeast300%

[SpookyGhost]

Due to there being an 8man comp for end game raiding and only being able to bring 2 tanks with 3 available, all tanks need to do the following the same:

1. Mitigate damage
2. Deal damage

Anything beyond that can be whatever you want it to be - that's where the lack of homogenzation comes in. Hell, you can even diversify HOW they mitigate/deal damage just as long as they still mitigate/deal the same amount. I really don't care if PLD or DRK are doing the same DPS as WAR, it literally doesn't matter. Unless one tank is lagging behind the others in those 2 categories, they are fine for any and all content - currently, PLD is lagging behind in the latter. WAR used to lag behind in the former before 2.1. These two things need to be homogenized and people would be a lot happier.

[OPneedNerfs]

.

THANK YOU. Someone who gets it.

It's not homogenization to be able to tank/deal damage as well as the other tanks.

Homogenization will never happen. Unless 2 jobs play EXACTLY the same.

The way people like the TS like to blanket an "increase of DPS" as homogenization is false and extremely misleading.

People aren't asking for the way PLDs to deal damage be the same exact way WARs and DRKs do. They aren't asking for a darkside aura, carve&spit, fell cleave and everything right down to the rotations being carbon copies.

TRUE Homogenization is something that is only a fantasy and will NEVER happen unless they copy-paste an entire job's toolkit (damage/utility/survival) into another and just changing the name. Even with some similar skills, as long as the way different jobs play differently, homogenization will be non-existent.

In closing, TS, if you feel that the current tanks play the same to the point you feel that they are 1 step from being TRULY homogenized, I can only say that you don't understand those jobs at all.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

Well I kinda agree with this post and here is my demand we only need two tanking classes and Darks are the improved pld and wars are still wars.

SE Remove the useless Class known as PLD all together and refund all eso to the people that geared them and allow us to convert the no longer existing PLD into a War or DRK 60 tanking class as compensation.

Now I am being majorly reasonable here if you think plds balanced and are bored of people complaining then remove this class from the game as long as the above is done then there wont be many arguments.

[Strident]

There will always be DPS checks. If tanks are balanced, then all tanks must be capable of empowering their party to meet the DPS check. Warrior currently offers a slashing debuff, vast personal damage, and a better damage down. Dark Knight is similar in that regard. PLD then, as a defensive tank existing in a world where the other two can deal much more personal damage, would have to empower the party to do more DPS somehow if he's not going to have personal damage. This would make sense if he was easier to heal because, for example, he heals himself and has more mitigation, thus allowing healers to do more damage. Either way, if PLD is ever going to be viable in a hardcore setting alongside DRK and WAR, both and not just one, then you're going to have to do something about DPS either party wise or personally. I do endorse that it is possible to increase practical PLD DPS without significantly rising its DPS ceiling, just by letting PLD switch stances off GCD for example.

[Freyyy]

snip

Your first posts didn't sound like that at all. You were speaking as if you wanted homogenization, you never said that it was a fantasy or such things. I agree with your last post and what SpookyGhost said tho, as long as the jobs don't play the same, I wouldn't be bothered about them having the same tools. As long as the way to use these tools are different, it's fine. It's just that the OP was not saying that we need to revert WAR to 2.0 or to let the PLD stay as it is for the sake of being different, he never said that and you put words in his mouth. We need balance, but it could be done in more imaginative ways than what the majority of players are proposing. I'd be OK if they just increased PLD damage, but it would sound a bit lazy to me.

[Rustangel]

People aren't asking for the way PLDs to deal damage be the same exact way WARs and DRKs do.

Yes, they are. That's the whole point of this thread. You must have missed the billion threads filled with suggestions that PLD should have a thing "like Grit" or their Oaths should work "kind of like Warrior but with a different holy looking particle effect". Read the forum, they aren't hard to find.

TRUE Homogenization is something that is only a fantasy and will NEVER happen unless <snip>

You're wrong. I've seen it happen. Which is again, the point of my post. Paladin and Warrior in WoW Wrath were exactly the way you describe - "similar skills" with different names and animations, and enough surface differences to allow people like you to say, as a technicality, that they were therefore not homogenized. I'm talking about core mechanical differences (eg. Paladins in TBC tanking with spell damage and warriors using Str). These core differences are vital and must be maintained and emphasised, while ensuring that all 3 tanks are roughly equally effective.

[Rustangel]

As a thought, I'd be fine with PLD doing virtually zero personal DPS but having the ability to protect the raid and reduce healing needed. More stuff like Divine Veil and Cover, but more powerful and less clunky. Imagine if we had Ser Adelphel Brightblade's ability from Vault - go charging around the area leaving spheres of light behind, and any other raiders who touch them get a damage reduction buff or a shield. How fun would that be?! Way more fun than seeing a slightly bigger number on Royal Authority.

Facilitating more DPS by reducing healing needed and providing stability, but without a direct copy of someone else's tools. I dunno, opinions are like bottoms, everyone has one and most aren't worthy of detailed consideration. That's 5min of thought, I'm sure others can do better - the point is to be creative.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

PLD has DPS issues (first and foremost), so, therefore, people ask for buffs to PLD DPS, either directly or indirectly.

A lot of users on this forum tend to get carried away, sure, but the free flow of ideas necessarily means both good and bad ideas will flow freely. You can criticize those ideas all you want, and you should, but to make a thread telling people to "stop" is antagonistic. I don't think this is your intent, but then your thread title is a rather flippant misrepresentation, isn't it? People aren't going to much care whether or not you say please.

I will happily agree that homogenization of gameplay is a bad thing, but homogenization of effective performance is a necessary evil.