Please stop asking for paladin DPS buffs.

[OPneedNerfs]

Homogenization was no longer an argument after 2.0 WAR got changes to be more in line with PLD.

Also, DRKs are a PLD reskin.

Please, stop using "homogenization" as an excuse for a class to remain bad.

Did this really warrant another topic?

[Rustangel]

Homogenization was no longer an argument after 2.0 WAR got changes to be more in line with PLD.

Also, DRKs are a PLD reskin.

Please, stop using "homogenization" as an excuse for a class to remain bad.

Did this really warrant another topic?

Let me emphasise this bit for you, as you might have missed it:

Are things balanced at present? No, of course not.

[OPneedNerfs]

Let me emphasise this bit for you, as you might have missed it:

Let me emphasize this part for you even though my post was extremely short, as you obviously missed it, along with all the other posts on this forums.

Homogenization was no longer an argument after 2.0 WAR got changes to be more in line with PLD.

Also, DRKs are a PLD reskin.

[Rustangel]

Let me emphasize this part for you even though my post was extremely short, as you obviously missed it, along with all the other posts on this forums.

If anything, this supports the argument for more diversity, not less. You are saying that just because we have a degree of homogenisation already, the best course is to have more?

[OPneedNerfs]

If anything, this supports the argument for more diversity, not less. You are saying that just because we have a degree of homogenisation already, the best course is to have more?

So your suggestion is to revert the WAR back to it's 2.0 form?

Let's see how many WARs agree to that shall we?

[Freyyy]

So your suggestion is to revert the WAR back to it's 2.0 form?

Let's see how many WARs agree to that shall we?

You obviously don't understand a single point here and/or are a very narrow-sighted person.

Wanting less homogenisation doesn't mean reverting WAR to 2.0 at all, and doesn't mean keeping PLD as it is right now either. It means that yeah, we need job changes, we need balance, but we don't want the jobs to be the same, balance can be brought without making every job the same. Like for example, instead of increasing PLD's DPS, they could make them have a party-wide buff that increases damage by X%, which would match the difference in DPS between a PLD MT and a DRK MT. There is plenty of solutions to balance the jobs without making them all totally the same.

[RapBreon]

You obviously don't understand a single point here and/or are a very narrow-sighted person.

Wanting less homogenisation doesn't mean reverting WAR to 2.0 at all, and doesn't mean keeping PLD as it is right now either. It means that yeah, we need job changes, we need balance, but we don't want the jobs to be the same, balance can be brought without making every job the same. Like for example, instead of increasing PLD's DPS, they could make them have a party-wide buff that increases damage by X%, which would match the difference in DPS between a PLD MT and a DRK MT. There is plenty of solutions to balance the jobs without making them all totally the same.

See I'm not entirely sure; not the balance gaming communities tend to advocate anyway.

I mean MNKs, NINs and DRGs are actually remarkably well-balanced in terms of numbers. But due to the way the game comes together as a whole, MNKs were considered poopty pants (this eased up when they got buffs). The game has a lot of moving parts and accurately predicting the outcome is supremely difficult; especially when you consider how broad the community is in skill-level. The example of the PLD buff seems good taken by itself (it actually does), but the synergy it may have with other classes (e.g inflating a specific DPS over all others) could end up creating a situation not unlike the MNK one when DRKs got their debuff.

Honestly, I think the only way to achieve perfect balance is complete and total homogenization, but you get a very drab game as a result (at least in my view). They appear to be inversely linked (negative relationship), how close the association is, does still appear to be a mystery. So the question really in my mind is; how much imbalance are we willing to tolerate in the name of flavour?

Edit: Oh yea, this thread gun be goooooooooooooooood.

[OPneedNerfs]

You obviously don't understand a single point here and/or are a very narrow-sighted person.

Wanting less homogenisation doesn't mean reverting WAR to 2.0 at all, and doesn't mean keeping PLD as it is right now either. It means that yeah, we need job changes, we need balance, but we don't want the jobs to be the same, balance can be brought without making every job the same. Like for example, instead of increasing PLD's DPS, they could make them have a party-wide buff that increases damage by X%, which would match the difference in DPS between a PLD MT and a DRK MT. There is plenty of solutions to balance the jobs without making them all totally the same.

Guess what your suggestion boils down to? Increasing PLD DPS. Seriously, stop fumbling about with the schemantics and arguing for the sake of arguing. I'd turn around and say YOU are much more narrow minded and unable to see the big picture.

Also, guess what, WAR also has something that increases party damage. That's right, their slashing debuff.

So if the TS is TRULY against "homogenization", each job should have flaws the other job makes up for.

But noooooo, when it comes to bringing the defenses of WAR back to 2.0 levels, everyone loses their minds because "we won't be relevant" while asking to be brought up closer to a WAR's offensive capabilities, they bring out "but muh uniqueness" and "Then they'll play the same".

[Nadirah]

You obviously don't understand a single point here and/or are a very narrow-sighted person.

Wanting less homogenisation doesn't mean reverting WAR to 2.0 at all, and doesn't mean keeping PLD as it is right now either. It means that yeah, we need job changes, we need balance, but we don't want the jobs to be the same, balance can be brought without making every job the same. Like for example, instead of increasing PLD's DPS, they could make them have a party-wide buff that increases damage by X%, which would match the difference in DPS between a PLD MT and a DRK MT. There is plenty of solutions to balance the jobs without making them all totally the same.

As long as there are things one class is good at and others are not, there will always be cases where one tank is better to take than the other.

Always. No exceptions.

And no tank should *have* to level and gear all three jobs just to keep a raid spot.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Diversity is one thing. Having a class be outright rejected for content due to lack of viability is another.

There's already a fine example that just happened not too long ago: Astrrologians. Before the buff many groups did not take AST because it was inherently weaker than the other two healers. After 3.07, it became a non-issue, and the healers are still unique in their own ways, but the point is that they're all acceptable to bring to raid.

PLDs are not,, because they have an inherently harder time meeting the tight DPS checks, so groups just aren't using them (the fact that these Raids lack the need for high physical mitigation doesn't help either).