Too Weak To Be Worthwhile - Teleporting

[User201109011315]

Doesn't matter. I'm not a judge and that's not illegal. SE also gave us a game to play in the first place.

I'm not holding it against them. I'm just saying perhaps they should construct their game in such a way that players cannot simply bypass a huge portion of the game, if that is how it is intended.

But if they intend players to bypass a huge portion of the game, even for the R46 questline, then perhaps they should question their design choices.

[Rhomagus]

I'm not holding it against them. I'm just saying perhaps they should construct their game in such a way that players cannot simply bypass a huge portion of the game, if that is how it is intended.

But if they intend players to bypass a huge portion of the game, even for the R46 questline, then perhaps they should question their design choices.

"Getting to the R46 questline objectives" aren't the objectives of the R46 quest. It's that simple. They're not "skipping a huge portion of the game" when they are fulfilling objectives. Traveling is filler when it comes to completing objectives. You can make traveling not filler by introducing content while in transit, for example, caravan defenses, but that probably won't be utilized as a viable method of transport.

If I'm literally chasing a bad guy from one location to the other, that's part of the quest objective. If I'm escorting an NPC from one location to another, that's a quest objective. If I need to see this NPC at this particular location, how I get there isn't part of the objective, only that I get there. This is my problem with what people consider to be "a huge portion of the game". People expect "a huge portion of the game" to be waiting on an airship and walking places. I want to play a fun game. Not a walk here, go here, ride here, extravaganza. Demand content, not filler. I promise you your immersion and enjoyment will be vastly more increased than implementing pointless timesinks. It will be further enhanced if you ask that these methods of transport actually offer content rather than just transportation. There's so much more they could do with airships than just arrive and depart, you're disregarding the potential if you think that's the only thing airships can be for.

When I choose to enjoy the world around me and explore the barren areas I recognize and admonish that it's my own choice. I enjoy finding little details that the developers put in but don't shove it down my throat. There's something special about it. It immerses me more. I feel like an explorer charting unknown frontiers. It's a mechanic that even single player games use to increase immersion. I applaud those who say, "Hey I found something cool you want to come see it?" and then proceed to show me. This was the premise of Traveling Jake, and he was excellent at showing me places I'd never thought to look.

[User201109011315]

Well I'm sure the journal read something to the effect of "travel to camp blah blah blah and rendezvous with blah blah blah" so I feel like travel was intended as part of the adventure. Players have little reason to visit Mor Dhona prior to the R46 mission, depending on class, so it might have been a good idea to ensure that players didn't take a shortcut.

I feel like when a game developer conducts players through the game world, he should ensure that completing quest objectives are not more important than the journey taken in order to complete them.

But i guess I see your point. Sometimes the quest should be enough in an of itself and exploration would not even be enjoyable if it was imposed upon you forcefully.

But it's just balance, I guess. Immersion vs Convenience. It's hard to grasp the scope of a game when you're just teleporting around it 90% of the time. But it's also no fun having to walk everywhere either.

[Azurymber]

Well I'm sure the journal read something to the effect of "travel to camp blah blah blah and rendezvous with blah blah blah" so I feel like travel was intended as part of the adventure. Players have little reason to visit Mor Dhona prior to the R46 mission, depending on class, so it might have been a good idea to ensure that players didn't take a shortcut.

I feel like when a game developer conducts players through the game world, he should ensure that completing quest objectives are not more important than the journey taken in order to complete them.

But i guess I see your point. Sometimes the quest should be enough in an of itself and exploration would not even be enjoyable if it was imposed upon you forcefully.

But it's just balance, I guess. Immersion vs Convenience. It's hard to grasp the scope of a game when you're just teleporting around it 90% of the time. But it's also no fun having to walk everywhere either.

Completely agree with this. It's all about reaching the right balance which shoves the player into an adventure and helps proactively create memories while at the same time ensuring that they don't get bored of running the same repetitive path. I personally think FFXI nailed it and reached that amazing balance that companies rarely reach.

[Rhomagus]

Completely agree with this. It's all about reaching the right balance which shoves the player into an adventure and helps proactively create memories while at the same time ensuring that they don't get bored of running the same repetitive path. I personally think FFXI nailed it and reached that amazing balance that companies rarely reach.

I think that was the biggest downside to XI. Every person I knew in real life who commented on the game that didn't play the game said to me and my roommate personally:

"Whenever I see you playing that game you're just moving around."

I justified it in my head at the time, but I realize that was the games number one problem for enticing unfamiliar players. 80% of your real life time on the game was spent going from one place to another. Pre Aht Urghan it was almost always, at the very least, a 30 minute commute to your destination. Wait in Jeuno > Airship to Kazham > Go to the Jungle by Chocoback. Wait in Jeuno > Chocoback to Bibiki Bay. Wait in Jeuno > Walk to Delkfutt's. Wait in Jeuno > <insert popular camp here>. Flag quest in this location > Set object in this location > Take object to this location > Fightscene > go back to Flag NPC.

.... No thanks. Especially when the smallest of those arrows was 15 minutes of real life time. No thanks.

I made it a point to start over with my roommate and we employed a "quest based" leveling philosophy. We would flag certain quests in our home nation, and only level by fighting monsters on the way to our quest objective. The game was actually not bad then. We were able to successfully fill our time with actual content, and that's what XIV needs to do. Put worthwhile content in between quest objectives.

[User201109011315]

I don't think FFXI achieved the right balance either.

But if FFXI had personal chocobos, and if the airship and boat rides weren't so excessive, I think FFXI would have been a lot more ideal than what FFXIV has managed to achieve.

[Azurymber]

I don't think FFXI achieved the right balance either.

But if FFXI had personal chocobos, and if the airship and boat rides weren't so excessive, I think FFXI would have been a lot more ideal than what FFXIV has managed to achieve.

ffxi did end up implementing personal chocobos a couple years in + you could essentially instaport to the cities if you got the outpost warps to the areas around them (was a 1min walk). That 1 min walk in effect let new players see rank 75s in epic gear run past and gave them an incentive to keep leveling. Airships were mainly for going to Kazahm or if you were in jeuno.

i think the reason i liked it so much is because when you started the game it meant something to be in your home region and you identified with your home nation and got used to it. Like going from San'doria to Windurst was a big deal and took time.

[User201109011315]

Like going from San'doria to Windurst was a big deal and took time.

That's a good point. Travelling between the nations takes time in FFXIV, but it's not really a big deal, and certainly not much of an adventure.

I wonder if the zone "redesigns", if there ever will be such a thing, will give people that sense again.

[Rhomagus]

ffxi did end up implementing personal chocobos a couple years in + you could essentially instaport to the cities if you got the outpost warps to the areas around them (was a 1min walk). That 1 min walk in effect let new players see rank 75s in epic gear run past and gave them an incentive to keep leveling.They weren't there for the instant teleport. They were more than likely there for some quest objective. If you have quest objectives that involve the city and give reasons to be in those cities then you'll have new players witnessing the veterans. Airships were mainly for going to Kazahm or if you were in jeuno.They still wasted too much time.

i think the reason i liked it so much is because when you started the game it meant something to be in your home region and you identified with your home nation and got used to it.I agree with this. There should be more done to really identify with your home. Grand Companies is a start, but more quests that draw the line between nations is a big one. I know the conquest system in XI was a big one especially in the beginning. I remember getting into a /shout match in the Valkurm Dunes when I, and every other NA, was a new player. They did a great job of differentiating the nations in that sense. Like going from San'doria to Windurst was a big deal and took time.And was cool the first time, but was despised subsequent times thereafter.

They need to add more nation differentiating content. More quests to tie us to our home nation. More lore that pits us apart but for the most part we come together. XI did do a good job in that respect. It was generally a server wide consensus that Bastok and San' D'oria hated each other but both thought that Windurst was cool and Windurst just wished it was closer to Valkurm Dunes because they liked both of the other nations equally. Put more emotional distance between the nations, not physical.

[Jynx]

They need to add more nation differentiating content. More quests to tie us to our home nation. More lore that pits us apart but for the most part we come together. XI did do a good job in that respect. It was generally a server wide consensus that Bastok and San' D'oria hated each other but both thought that Windurst was cool and Windurst just wished it was closer to Valkurm Dunes because they liked both of the other nations equally. Put more emotional distance between the nations, not physical.

I personally feel the distance and trouble you had to go through just to visit other nations at the early stages of the game really did give you a sense of national pride for your home nation.

You spent all your time in town, at your city because you didn't really have the means to transport yourself to the others for some time, by that time you were so familliar with your nation it was like home.

While I atribute some of that to the distance and inabillity to move to other nations, each nation had a plethora of content available to it, XIV lacks this...it has quests here and there but you never feel like "Part" of your nation. There needs to be some sort of exclusive content for you in the main cities aside from the quests, hell if even a few choice NPC's would notice you (Fame NPC's in XI come to mind, but I'd rather it be a few NPC's who noticed you per city) the NPC's in XIV actually say a few unique things based on your class I don't see why they can't make a few respond based on your nationality or storyline progression.

It would be awesome to see NPC's sho you away because they were afraid of the greenwrath wracked on your soul, or if city officials in Limsa gave you the run-around if you were associating with the marauders guild.

They may not want to keep distance a factor for XIV but at least do something to replace what it created, I want to feel like a part of my home nation...not an alien in all of them.