Sword Oath Idea

[wisedad9]

I say get rid of that junk. Instead of sword oath i would like to see Reflect. Give the paladin a level 30 trait called reflect in which will reflect damaged blocked from range and melee attacks in which will increase the DPS output of the Paladin and also generate a higher Enmity output to all targets attacking. The more you are hit the more enmity and dps you gain. this is how the Paladin should be. We only block around 20-40% of damage and even then it is not all the time. So I think it would balance out the Paladin. To give some people what they want it will make the Paladin gain a white glow around their shield. With this it will put the Paladin back onto the MT spot instead of the OT since they will gain more dps with the more damage received.

[Nepharius]

I always liked the idea of using Sword Oath to juggle TP. Either it can give us a massive skill speed bonus at the cost of halting/decreasing our TP regen, or simply increase the dmg potency of our skills while also increasing their TP consumption. Both of these would require careful timing from PLDs to know when to push their dps and for how long. In addition it would invite more synergy with other jobs. (Picture NINs goading PLDs during trick attack.) I know PLD is lacking a skill specifically for regaining TP, but that is exactly why the decision to use Sword Oath would have weight to it. Besides if the increase in dps is great enough others won't mind supporting us.

I would greatly prefer the skill speed buff. It would be a lot more fun/unique than simply giving us a flat potency buff. Plus as the only tank using a one handed weapon, shouldn't skill speed, not dmg potency, be our niche?

[MrTherm]

Sword oath might seem "underwhelming" but its actually a really good attack stance. From what I've read, going full DPS on something, your auto-attacks account for 30-35% of your damage. PLD has the lowest attack speed, and currently my attacks hit roughly 550 base, and 700 with FoF up ever 2.24 seconds. It might not seem like much, but that's ALOT of free damage with no TP drain. Comparing it to other classes, its nearly double their auto-attack damage. If anything, I personally think they should change Skill Speed to effect auto-attacks. That or UNCHANGE determination to effect auto-attacks again. Why they removed that in 3.0 is beyond me.

So yea, I don't see any problems with Sword Oath itself. I see problems with lack of off-GCD's. (looking at your shield swipe). If anything they should bring Shield Oath down to lvl 30 and give you access to both at the same time an add an additional DPS attack in place of what was shield oath at lvl 40.

[Valoiz]

I like the Idea of PLD Oaths giving beneficts to the whole party

Shield Oath: +5 % physical defense to the party members
Sword Oath: 20 potency holy DMG for Autoatacks party members

Like PLD from WoW
This will also be good to mitigate the lower DMG from PLD

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, you mean a ramp-up mechanic. That could also work.
Only if you've been going all STR all the time. My current stats include 804 STR and 889 VIT, so under the OP's idea when off-tanking my STR and VIT values would shift, leading to a DPS gain since my resulting STR would be higher than my resulting VIT in Sword Oath. I'm also okay with reduced enmity in Sword Oath in exchange for better TP regen.

Wouldn't this even further condemn PLDs for stance-dancing, a tank aspect in which they are already weakest among the three? You'd also be by a large the squishiest OT and run the Defiance issue upon leaving Sword Oath -- you'd have to wait for your health to be restored before you've gained the tank stance's full eHP benefits.

And wouldn't the latter just exacerbate PLD's enmity issue? It can already produce less enmity than the other two, making it difficult to use RA out of tank stance. With those changes it will be the only tank that cannot remotely maintain enmity outside of tank stance.

I'm all for more creative Oaths, but PLD's issue is already that it is inferior both in general (dps, OT and especially MT) and specific (stance-dancing, enmity, OT dps loss for mitigating) points. Whatever changes are made should effectively close those gaps whilst seeking that increased identity.

Additionally, though this is arguably just personal, it feels reaaallly weird to me to turn Strength into a stance-equalizing stat (+ dps in tank stance, + tankiness in dps stance)... For one, it means it's almost always going to be unideal. You can argue that that's just how PLD should be unique, but most tanks are already long since geared basically according to the guidelines (unfortunate as they are) that most fending accs are shit.

What I'd like to see from Sword Oath:
- If using a "ramp-up" or "resource" mechanic, it shouldn't start from the minimum position, but rather about midway (slightly favoring staying in a given stance), full (favors stance-dancing), or at a position based on past action, likely using a shared resource between both Oaths generated by relevant actions (potency dealt/mitigated/covered/healed, etc.). The last option would probably be the most engaging, but arguable least PLD-like, as we have something of a characteristic of being a sort of 'standing guard', always at the ready and plentiful useful even when not at the sort of eye of the storm (the place where DRK and WAR further excel in terms of combined dps and mitigation).
- If it continues to do bonus AA damage, it should be slightly buffed and actually based on AA damage (e.g. 75% of weapon AA dmg), not weaponskill potency (a flat 50 potency tacked onto varying AA speeds). In this way a 1.7s blade still causes the same Sword Oath bonus dps over time as a 2.6s blade. (Both deal the higher, 1.7s value.)
- Improved control; "resource" use should be manipulable, preferably in a way that brings out the differences in Oaths and what Paladin uniquely brings 'to the table'.
- Improve rotational options and/or variance; right now one of our largest downsides of Shield Swipe is that even if it were buffed, it would still cost us dps to use more than once per Goring Blade, just because of how tight its tri-combo is. Essentially it leaves PLD with little to no variance -- GB, RoH, RA; GB, RoH, RA; GB, RoH, RA... Anything that can allow us variance through procs and/or modifiers I would love to see.

[Kosmos992k]

What if...in addition to the normal properties of the Oaths, Sword Oath flipped 15% of VIT to STR and Shield Oath flipped 15% of STR to VIT. Not a complete stat swap. This leave 3 stances, Shield Oath, Sword Oath and no Oath. PLD could still stack VIT or STR to their heart's delight and this change would increase the impact of the choice to stack STR or VIT.

That said, I still think I would prefer to have Shield Oath additionally grant some damage potency/enmity gain on Shield Bash/Shield Swipe as well as damage reflection to Sheltron and Cover.

Oh, one other thing;

Shield Oath ought to boost our Block rate, and decrease the parry rate because we are shield focused and Sword Oath should boost the parry rate and decrease the block rate because we are sword focused.

[Tadus]

I like the Idea of PLD Oaths giving beneficts to the whole party

Shield Oath: +5 % physical defense to the party members
Sword Oath: 20 potency holy DMG for Autoatacks party members

That is freaking genious. That would be one reason that makes PLD stand out of the other two tanks. sadly though, 90% of all aoe are magical so the 5%physical mitigation wouldnt be that good ya know. I do like that idea though. Idk how i feel about 20 potency though because SE would need to work and see how it affect the DPS (will they be OP). But ye these are good ideas.

[Strident]

Frankly speaking, this would be a massive nerf. Paladins do not have massively differentiated vitality and strength ratings, especially not with strength or melded gear (which they should be wearing), and switching the two means nothing compared to the damage boost conferred by the current Sword Oath. Furthermore, reducing enmity generation is an even bigger nerf. You can't even be in Sword Oath while tanking; this puts Paladin even more behind in DPS with Dark Knight and Warrior.

[Marxam]

anyone who has played WKC2 knows about the skill "Twin Blades". Probably a bad example since that game was mediocre but still kinda fun. In this stance the player would drop the shield and "clone" the sword they are currently holding and all attack animations are now altered a dual blade style of fighting. It looked really cool and help give the sword and board class a bit of variety.



Full Video of it in action here

I hope they do something like this for the PLD in the near future.

[Kosmos992k]

anyone who has played WKC2 knows about the skill "Twin Blades". Probably a bad example since that game was mediocre but still kinda fun. In this stance the player would drop the shield and "clone" the sword they are currently holding and all attack animations are now altered a dual blade style of fighting. It looked really cool and help give the sword and board class a bit of variety.



Full Video of it in action here

I hope they do something like this for the PLD in the near future.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes, only, please no Flemron 108 to get the skill....

LOL! I had 1000s of hours in that game, and loved it, a pity SCEA and D3 Publisher had to bail on the game early....