Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Jynx]

I was unaware there was anything really left to say in this thread...

I think about 30 pages ago everything that could be said pretty much was, I think we are arguing in cricles still. It's a matter of personal preference wether the insta warps ruin your gameplay experience or not. Just because people have the option doesn't mean it doesn't effect them, the option really does take out all the "Point" of walking.

Sure you can still walk...but why? It's not rewarding anymore like it used to be. Walking to somewhere used to have a point "To get there in one peice" but now that that's invalidated with the airships it really isn't rewarding or even really has a point to be being done. There isn't anything to really see if your just going from city-city, nor is it dangerous, nor is it engaging at all currently.

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to places...but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdays, it's all about maximizing your time/productivity instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked, or how crappy your day was.

It's a different mentality between I and the people who want the stuff right away, and I'm sure those people who want instant airships all have their own lines they will draw in the sand eventually and say "That's enough"

I've put my point across that I think a more dynamic world should be worked on before introducing ways to bypass the empty world we currently play in, it's just encouraging the developers to keep pushing work on the overworld back farther and farther when they know they can keep people happy by allowing them to bypass the world.

I don't want the game to become a giant series of instanced content...

But really I hope the people argueing circles around eachother can really just accept that there are two sides to this arguement and no matter what you say the other side isn't listening, nor is either side "Right" it's a matter of preferences...yes that includes involving a "Choice" the option to never have that "Choice" is my preference, because it effect my gameplay experience in a way I don't want it too.

[Ilean]

I was unaware there was anything really left to say in this thread...

I think about 30 pages ago everything that could be said pretty much was, I think we are arguing in cricles still. It's a matter of personal preference wether the insta warps ruin your gameplay experience or not. Just because people have the option doesn't mean it doesn't effect them, the option really does take out all the "Point" of walking.

Sure you can still walk...but why? It's not rewarding anymore like it used to be. Walking to somewhere used to have a point "To get there in one peice" but now that that's invalidated with the airships it really isn't rewarding or even really has a point to be being done. There isn't anything to really see if your just going from city-city, nor is it dangerous, nor is it engaging at all currently.

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to places...but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdays, it's all about maximizing your time/productivity instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked, or how crappy your day was.

It's a different mentality between I and the people who want the stuff right away, and I'm sure those people who want instant airships all have their own lines they will draw in the sand eventually and say "That's enough"

I've put my point across that I think a more dynamic world should be worked on before introducing ways to bypass the empty world we currently play in, it's just encouraging the developers to keep pushing work on the overworld back farther and farther when they know they can keep people happy by allowing them to bypass the world.

I don't want the game to become a giant series of instanced content...

But really I hope the people argueing circles around eachother can really just accept that there are two sides to this arguement and no matter what you say the other side isn't listening, nor is either side "Right" it's a matter of preferences...yes that includes involving a "Choice" the option to never have that "Choice" is my preference, because it effect my gameplay experience in a way I don't want it too.

T L ; D R

[Jynx]

T L ; D R

Too short, didn't read.

[Rhomagus]

My response to Jynx can be read below:

I was unaware there was anything really left to say in this thread...There's plenty more.

I think about 30 pages ago everything that could be said pretty much wasI've just came across some ideas that haven't been said in the thread yet. I'll use this post to put them in., I think we are arguing in cricles still.Some people are, some people aren't. It's a matter of personal preference wether the insta warps ruin your gameplay experience or not.Precisely, which is why I've introduced a solution that includes a risk/reward scenario bolstered by actual content. Here's a link for "Future Airship Content Ideas". Just because people have the option doesn't mean it doesn't effect them, the option really does take out all the "Point" of walking.It's lessens the game mechanic of walking, not the point. You can still choose to walk to a destination, and you can only get to certain destinations by walking. For example: Can you teleport directly to little Ala Mhigo?

Sure you can still walk...but why?For the sake of exploration and immersion. It's not rewarding anymore like it used to be.It's just as rewarding, it's just not forced on you. Walking to somewhere used to have a point "To get there in one peice"You still get there in one piece if you teleport. That's a moot point. but now that that's invalidated with the airshipsExcept that it hasn't been. it really isn't rewarding or even really has a point to be being done.There's still plenty of reason to walk. I've shown why and how. Konachibi has presented her own personal experiences that show the incentive. There isn't anything to really see if your just going from city-city, nor is it dangerous, nor is it engaging at all currently.So you'd prefer they stick a R45 Antling back at the impasse between Western and Easter Thanalan. Did we not learn our lesson already on that one? How about adding more objectives to those paths, by adding more content. You do not need to reduce a person's ability to teleport in able to accomplish this.

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to placesThat's unfortunate. Especially considering how much time was put into XI's transportation methods. Especially considering how much time it takes to walk from city to city....but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...I think it will provide more access to a larger demographic and the supposed "hardcores" aren't being hardcore they're being elitist. Especially in terms of exploration and immersion.but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdaysAnd why is the most degraded aspect of it, commuting, almost universally frowned upon. You are using your own resources (fuel, money, calories, time,) and not getting paid for it., it's all about maximizing your time/productivityThis feeling is stressed more when you have multiple timesink inbetween you and your goal. If I have a certain amount of gametime to accomplish a task, I'll choose to completely forgo the attempt to do that task if just getting there is going to eat up so much time that I won't be able to finish the task in the first place. I want to play the game, not wait through it. instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked,This is completely up to personal choice. I personally have the time to do so. Having the option actually galvanizes my accomplishment because I chose the road less traveled. or how crappy your day was.

It's a different mentality between I and the people who want the stuff right awayNot always. I love taking my time, when I have it. I don't like being forced to waste my time when I don't., and I'm sure those people who want instant airships all have their own lines they will draw in the sand eventually and say "That's enough"Yes, when you completely negate the option for all parties to play the game how they want when those options don't effect other people.

I've put my point across that I think a more dynamic world should be worked onI agree. They should add more content, even aesthetic details, to the game. They don't need to circumvent convenience to do so, or put up arbitrary barriers when it's unnecessary. before introducing ways to bypass the empty world we currently play inRead Konachibi's posts. It's not as empty as you think., it's just encouraging the developers to keep pushing work on the overworld back farther and farther when they know they can keep people happy by allowing them to bypass the world.I believe you'll be eating these words when they introduce the redesigns for the field areas. Which is coming soon if I'm not mistaken.

I don't want the game to become a giant series of instanced content...I don't think anyone is advocating that it should. Why do you think they're changing the claiming system the way they are. Do you not think that change is being made specifically for non-instanced content. Just be patient, you'll see.

But really I hope the people argueing circles around eachother can really just accept that there are two sides to this arguement and no matter what you say the other side isn't listeningI've made gone through great pains, and considerable time investment, to show that I'm listening. You are correct that some aren't though., nor is either side "Right" it's a matter of preferencesOne side offers vastly more evidence to support their claim and works to include proposals that are inclusive to both sides. That may not be "right" but that's as far from "wrong" as an argument about opinions can be....yes that includes involving a "Choice" the option to never have that "Choice" is my preference, because it effect my gameplay experience in a way I don't want it too.How? You need to expand on this and show how someone has not met or exceeded these expectations.

A developer creates a game with goals in mind. Final Fantasy XIV has a myriad number of "goals" to achieve. These are further reinforced by the lodestone achievements function. This will further be enhanced by an in-game achievements function which is already in the works. Some goals are clearly defined for the player. Other goals are suggested to the player. And yet there are still, and always will be, goals that the player defines. Putting arbitrary filters to accomplish these goals would be a design flaw. People already called out XI on it's timesinks, airship travel being one of them. The developers responded in XI and have adapted XIV accordingly. Yet there are areas where they could still open things up.

People shouldn't be forced to sink their time into not accomplishing their goals. People should be given the freedom to explore the world as they see fit. Hand holding them or forcing them reduces the sense of independence that accompanies exploration.

Opening up areas, creating potential, and providing content is a job for the development team. Exploring those areas, fulfilling their own potential, and choosing to experience that content is up to the player.

The 20th century philosopher Cornell posited:

To what you wanted to see good
Has made you blind
And what you wanted to be yours
Has made it mine

So don't you lock up something
That you wanted to see fly
Hands are for shaking
No, not tying

No, no tying

I sure don't mind a change

[AmyRae]

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to places...but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdays, it's all about maximizing your time/productivity instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked, or how crappy your day was.

If walking is so important to you, why not take a half-hour walk... outside. At least you'll have the benefit of the exercise. And if you don't have to walk a half-hour in the MMO you play every session, that's more time to get out more.

There are more important things in life than being immersed in tedium in the game. I mean, your character also doesn't have to eat, drink, sleep, perform daily hygene, pay taxes, and throw out the garbage for a reason. People just want to cut to the action, not live out yet another boring life.

[Ilean]

If walking is so important to you, why not take a half-hour walk... outside. At least you'll have the benefit of the exercise. And if you don't have to walk a half-hour in the MMO you play every session, that's more time to get out more.

There are more important things in life than being immersed in tedium in the game. I mean, your character also doesn't have to eat, drink, sleep, perform daily hygene, pay taxes, and throw out the garbage for a reason. People just want to cut to the action, not live out yet another boring life.

Sounds like he wants it to be like how they represent MMOs in anime, with the characters being actually fully immersed (matrix style) and even simple tasks like walking to the next town becoming an awesome adventure full of things to discover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVUmQ3xiJJE

It's a nice ideal but also something you just can't really get from any of the existing MMO.

I really suggest people looking for that kind of immersion try pen & paper....

[Azurymber]

Sounds like he wants it to be like how they represent MMOs in anime, with the characters being actually fully immersed (matrix style) and even simple tasks like walking to the next town becoming an awesome adventure full of things to discover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVUmQ3xiJJE

It's a nice ideal but also something you just can't really get from any of the existing MMO.

I really suggest people looking for that kind of immersion try pen & paper....

that anime is epic

[Ilean]

that anime is epic

Yup, was great.

[Jobeto-Rin]

I was unaware there was anything really left to say in this thread...

I think about 30 pages ago everything that could be said pretty much was, I think we are arguing in cricles still. It's a matter of personal preference wether the insta warps ruin your gameplay experience or not. Just because people have the option doesn't mean it doesn't effect them, the option really does take out all the "Point" of walking.

Sure you can still walk...but why? It's not rewarding anymore like it used to be. Walking to somewhere used to have a point "To get there in one peice" but now that that's invalidated with the airships it really isn't rewarding or even really has a point to be being done. There isn't anything to really see if your just going from city-city, nor is it dangerous, nor is it engaging at all currently.

I can see why people want the warp, I'm still not really bought on the fact that nobody has "The time" to get to places...but I understand the mentality of many who just want to bang out everything as fast as possible. I think it's unhealthy for the game for people to be able to do this...but I understand why they want to be able to do it. People treat MMO's like work more and more nowdays, it's all about maximizing your time/productivity instead of getting wrapped up in a world where you get to forget about how hard you worked, or how crappy your day was.

It's a different mentality between I and the people who want the stuff right away, and I'm sure those people who want instant airships all have their own lines they will draw in the sand eventually and say "That's enough"

I've put my point across that I think a more dynamic world should be worked on before introducing ways to bypass the empty world we currently play in, it's just encouraging the developers to keep pushing work on the overworld back farther and farther when they know they can keep people happy by allowing them to bypass the world.

I don't want the game to become a giant series of instanced content...

But really I hope the people argueing circles around eachother can really just accept that there are two sides to this arguement and no matter what you say the other side isn't listening, nor is either side "Right" it's a matter of preferences...yes that includes involving a "Choice" the option to never have that "Choice" is my preference, because it effect my gameplay experience in a way I don't want it too.

I agree. We are going in circles, only because this is a really hard subject to argue about.

A bit of clairvoyance struck me in the median of this ruckus; the mechanics of this MMO are being adjusted to a more time sensitive audience. Concisely, it's accommodating for individuals with the lack of. To be disgruntled with SE about this "casual conscious" decision (a monetary one for a business is understandable) is ridiculous.

So, taking a step back from this thread, I pondered about immersion. Is immersion the actual involvement in an activity or is it a gauge of just how deeply involved with it we are? So, ultimately at the nadir, isn't every last one of us immersed?

So then, immersion isn't subjective; Only the level of it and feelings are. Love or lump your version of immersion, you still are regardless. To play anything, involvement is necessary on the most basic level. Deep or shallow of this involvement is insignificant.

These mechanics being adjusted for people with less play time are bringing down the enjoyment of us adventurers who have a higher level of immersion than most, and reducing our overall fun and experience. Travel means traversing distances, recognizing and feeling distance substantiates massiveness. Remove travel, you therefore remove the essense of massiveness. Now it's MORPG. Last I recall, this is supposed to be an online world. Perception of massiveness is a major principle of a world.

I read your argument of my post Quanta, I'm pressed for time, so I'll immerse myself later on to append my rebuttal to this thread.

OMG I'm such a nerd.

[Rhomagus]

My response to Jobeto-Rin can be viewed after the spoiler despite it not being directed to me:

I agree. We are going in circles, only because this is a really hard subject to argue about.

A bit of clairvoyance struck me in the median of this ruckus; the mechanics of this MMO are being adjusted to a more time sensitive audience. Concisely, it's accommodating for individuals with the lack of. To be disgruntled with SE about this "casual conscious" decision (a monetary one for a business is understandable) is ridiculous.

So, taking a step back from this thread, I pondered about immersion. Is immersion the actual involvement in an activity or is it a gauge of just how deeply involved with it we are?I think everyone in this thread is referring to the common element of how we can be immersed in a medium, particularly how Square Enix does so. So, ultimately at the nadir, isn't every last one of us immersed?Yes to some extent. Just by choosing to log in there is a level of immersion that is required of the user, but that's the base of it. I've shown the different levels of how a person can be immersed but a lot of that has to do with the how much they are involved. I've shown how a person can become deeply immersed in Pong. You'll find that people's immersion is different across generations and mediums. Some people are immersed by chess, other are immersed by books. Some are absolutely incapable of becoming immersed in these activities because it doesn't appeal to their interests. Even Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper Role Playing games can't be enjoyed by some because they don't want to utilize the imagination necessary to participate. They may be interested in the same themes and genre that D&D present, but they lack the hook. So they move to a medium that provides that hook. I don't see how this makes immersion anything but subjective.

So then, immersion isn't subjectiveHow have you showed this? To make this true with the information provided the only way I can rationlize immersion being objective is that people are choosing to log in. The very act in and of itself is immersion. After that, the levels to which we are immersed becomes increasingly more subjective as your immersion level grows.; Only the level of it and feelings areThe level of it and feelings are. I don't think only though. As some people don't move beyond the "hook".. Love or lump your version of immersion,Not to be off topic but I found this sentence beautifully poetic. I don't understand the phrase "love or lump" but I'll assume that it's akin to "love or loathe" you still are regardless.Yes. To play anything, involvement is necessary on the most basic level.Yes Deep or shallow of this involvement is insignificant.Yes, because the level of immersion is dependent the individual.

These mechanics being adjusted for people with less play time are bringing down the enjoyment of us adventurersI don't understand why because there is a lore explanation for teleportation. who have a higher level of immersion than most, and reducing our overall fun and experience.But you aren't them. You can be only you. Only you can experience your experiences. Travel means traversing distances, recognizing and feeling distance substantiates massiveness.But it's wholly unnecessary to completely base your immersion on it. As shown by another poster in this thread. We don't watch a character sleep for 8 hours. The character rests in the bed. The camera fades out. Then in mere moments, the camera fades in to a sunlit filled room. This, in general doesn't break immersion for movie goers. The argument against this is even more poorly supported with the context of the situation we find ourselves in. It's as if the viewer were given the option of whether or not they wanted to watch the person sleep, then complained about that their level of immersion was disturbed because another person decided not to watch the sleep sequence Remove travel, you therefore remove the essense of massiveness.Yes, but no one is calling for the developers to remove travel. Now it's MORPG. Last I recall, this is supposed to be an online world. Perception of massiveness is a major principle of a world.And it is still retained and preserved by not forcing you to teleport and giving you a lore that supports teleportation if you wanted. SE went to lore explanation than they were required and I respect them for that. I'm glad there is a reasoning to explain teleportation.

I read your argument of my post Quanta, I'm pressed for time, so I'll immerse myself later on to append my rebuttal to this thread.

OMG I'm such a nerd.

We're all nerds. I love it. I'm in good company. While I was a bit confused with your post at first I looked up a couple terms and phrases and it made a little more sense but your points seem contradictory.

I feel this is where the responses will start to get very complicated as I'm unable to just "respond off the cuff" as I've been able to before. I'm looking forward to it.