Sorry, but no tank should pure vit stack right side.

[Kerwin]

Also, there's no reason why a PLD shouldn't swap to full (or at the very least, some) STR gear for bosses. Even a crappy healer should be able to keep up a Sword Oath PLD using STR stuff if the PLD is rotating CDs properly so why gimp your contribution to the group?

Sword Oathing any boss worth while is beyond stupid if your MTing Savage. And even if your are spanking some dungeon boss, a good DPS will rip enmity right off you if you tank in SO. What are you even saying?

How many times do you need to be told before you'll understand? STR no longer changes anything when it comes to block or parry. They completely removed the benefit that STR gave to both block and parry mitigation when they released Heavensward.

Then even more reason why PLD's should not stack STR. The only benifit you get out of it is a slight increase in DPS and enmity, and if enmity build is not a problem on full VIT, it then only comes down to one benefit (the damage). You are proving my point by stating this.

PLD = VIT > STR
WAR/DRK = STR > VIT

That is how it works.

[Tyrial]

Sword Oathing any boss worth while is beyond stupid if your MTing Savage. And even if your are spanking some dungeon boss, a good DPS will rip enmity right off you if you tank in SO. What are you even saying?

Then even more reason why PLD's should not stack STR. The only benifit you get out of it is a slight increase in DPS and enmity, and if enmity build is not a problem on full VIT, it then only comes down to one benefit (the damage). You are proving my point by stating this.

PLD = VIT > STR
WAR/DRK = STR > VIT

That is how it works.

Actually, you have no point.

Sword Oath is far from stupid if you meet two requirements: 1) You're not losing Enmity 2) Healer can handle your incoming damage. I've never (on both my PLD and my WAR) lost aggro to any DPS if I was actually attempting to maintain enmity. So what are YOU even saying? You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

As for your second bit, it's more than just a "slight" increase in DPS. You keep breaking the tank jobs into two groups, but the principle holds true for all three. If you're able to survive the worst attack that the encounter throws at you then there's no reason not to swap in more STR providing you're comfortable with your healer(s). It doesn't matter that WAR or DRK benefit more from the STR due to having AoE DPS and self heals that rely on damage done. All three tanks benefit from STR through increased damage output and as a result of that, increased enmity.

[Syzygian]

Do we really have another thread about this? There's like 8 of them now.

You should equip whatever will facilitate the maximum performance on your part and the rest of the raid. If you have healers that are extremely good at DPSing, a few extra vit pieces may benefit the party. If your healers prefer to stick to healing more often than not, you should put on a bit more str. But pentamelds are still the best, which is a design flaw in and of itself. TL;DR You rolled tank, you need to be adaptable.

It is however, a logical fallacy, to assume that a tank wearing tank gear as opposed to DPS gear means they don't know how to play their job. There are as much newb, scrub tanks out there in full STR b/c they wanna be Xeno, as there are silly tanks in straight VIT that don't know how to manage their job/rotation/utilities any better.

It really only is a point of contention in raids. In casual/midcore content all a VIT tank means, assuming they are good at playing their job (there is nothing skill-based about swapping gearsets), is that a healer should be in Cleric Stance 50-75% of the time Baning DoTs or engaging in copious Holy/Gravity spam.

[KaedrianLiang]

Why not just have VIT be the damage modifier for tanks?

Towards the end of ARR. Tanks were making some awesome crafted STR/VIT accessories melded with STR/VIT to help their raid push out extra dps while not being any less tanky. Now that HW is here, we see the devs intentionally not offering any i180 combat accessories, because we were bending gameplay and their raid design.

So i challenge the dev's: since str vs vit is a controversial topic in high tier raiding, and you the dev's are clearly not going to let us have the high cost luxury of making worthy STR+VIT accessories, Just make it so that VIT is a damage modifier for tanks while completely removing the str stat off left side tank gear. And offer a persistent stat to replace str, like Parry on all "Fending" gear, makes sense right?

[Freyyy]

Sword Oathing any boss worth while is beyond stupid if your MTing Savage. And even if your are spanking some dungeon boss, a good DPS will rip enmity right off you if you tank in SO. What are you even saying?

You'll have trouble with AS3 DPS checks if you don't swap to Sword Oath as MT whenever you can. Shield Oath PLD DPS is so shitty right now.
And against a dungeon boss, a STR PLD shouldn't lose enmity even with a good DPS while tanking in SwO.
You're most likely a bad tank who doesn't even want to bother trying to actually maximize its efficiency as a job. Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about.

[Eye_Gore]

And even if your are spanking some dungeon boss, a good DPS will rip enmity right off you if you tank in SO. What are you even saying?

This made me laugh, you funny.

[Syzygian]

Towards the end of ARR. Tanks were making some awesome crafted STR/VIT accessories melded with STR/VIT to help their raid push out extra dps while not being any less tanky. Now that HW is here, we see the devs intentionally not offering any i180 combat accessories, because we were bending gameplay and their raid design.

Hilariously enough, the regular i150 accessories will still meld to more STR and VIT combined than any combination of i210 fending/slaying gear. I personally have two i210 fending pieces, and if I equip those and three i190 slaying pieces as well, I have less STR and VIT than a full set of i150 pentamelds.

You'll have trouble with AS3 DPS checks if you don't swap to Sword Oath as MT whenever you can. Shield Oath PLD DPS is so shitty right now.
And against a dungeon boss, a STR PLD shouldn't lose enmity even with a good DPS while tanking in SwO.
You're most likely a bad tank who doesn't even want to bother trying to actually maximize its efficiency as a job. Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about.

This made me laugh, you funny.

These posts and the posts they're responding to are all completely dependent on the gear the tank is wearing. A full vit PLD will most likely not be able to keep enmity off skilled DPS in Sword Oath, unless they are spamming Halone and ignoring their other combos that deal more damage, and even then only maybe. A crit Fire IV or a DRG's opener is about all it'd take. Its just funny watching people respond like this as if everyone is wearing the same gear. Everyone isn't.

[Sleigh]

Why not just have VIT be the damage modifier for tanks?

Towards the end of ARR. Tanks were making some awesome crafted STR/VIT accessories melded with STR/VIT to help their raid push out extra dps while not being any less tanky. Now that HW is here, we see the devs intentionally not offering any i180 combat accessories, because we were bending gameplay and their raid design.

So i challenge the dev's: since str vs vit is a controversial topic in high tier raiding, and you the dev's are clearly not going to let us have the high cost luxury of making worthy STR+VIT accessories, Just make it so that VIT is a damage modifier for tanks while completely removing the str stat off left side tank gear. And offer a persistent stat to replace str, like Parry on all "Fending" gear, makes sense right?

Er, it's the same situation now as it's been. As of 2.2 and on they released a raid tier without equivalent tier accessories, then the big patch after they'd give out those crafted accessories. They'd be far too strong to release alongside a raid due to VIT gains trivializing some mechanics in progression, that's why they delay them. Expect i180 in 3.1, which if/when they come are going to be absolutely ridiculous.

i150 are plenty strong enough, TBH. My tanks refuse to touch even i210 VIT accessories that have dropped in lieu of the i150s.

[winsock]

The only benifit you get out of it is a slight increase in DPS and enmity, and if enmity build is not a problem on full VIT, it then only comes down to one benefit (the damage). You are proving my point by stating this.

I agree with this and some of the other points you have made. DPS is pretty much the only reason to take STR on PLD.

The problem though is that while more STR will increase your dps, more VIT doesn't necessarily increase your survivability because most of your survivability is based on eHPS rather than total eHP.

An example with easy numbers might be:
* You will receive 100 incoming damage every 3 seconds for the next 30 seconds.
* You will receive a 100 healing HoT tick every 3 seconds for the next 30 seconds.

You have a 100% chance to survive this scenario if you have 101HP.
You have a 100% chance to survive this scenario if you have 1 million HP.

[Freyyy]

These posts and the posts they're responding to are all completely dependent on the gear the tank is wearing. A full vit PLD will most likely not be able to keep enmity off skilled DPS in Sword Oath, unless they are spamming Halone and ignoring their other combos that deal more damage, and even then only maybe. A crit Fire IV or a DRG's opener is about all it'd take. Its just funny watching people respond like this as if everyone is wearing the same gear. Everyone isn't.

That's general speaking. It implies a PLD having the same gear as the DPS. And I precised in my post "a STR PLD".